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Hot!Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles

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Therese
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 11:39:10 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

News for ya sisters, Between the beginning of the last supper and Jesus being led away to be crucified there is no mention of any woman. Astounding ! Women were not invited to the last supper. Women were not invited to see the transfiguration. Women were not invited to pray with Jesus and keep watch during his passion in the garden of Gethsemane. I cannot stop Laughing....!!!

And with regard to all the men running from Jesus but the women standing firm during his arrest. There was probably no women there to stand firm. Even if there were the scripture says "ALL" of his disciples fled. That would include female disciples......cough, gag, snort.....omg..! I am choking on my own spittle.....hahahah

The men fleeing during Jesus arrest was of short duration where as John and Peter followed him into the palace of the high priest. But, no women were around to follow him into the palace.

The scripture also says that most of the women disciples watch the crucifixion afar off. There was in fact at least one male disciple in the immediate vicinity of the cross. "the disciple whom Jesus loved" and he took Mary the mother of Jesus into "HIS" house.

Now you know the biblical facts that you have distorted to promote your feminist agenda. And you wonder why we men will not allow you to teach.....????? It will never change. You cannot be trusted to handle the Word of God faithfully and we know it.

Regards


Laughing at your sisters!  That's an odd approach.  Christ calls us to be peacemakers.  How then do you propose to help build peace in the world if you are not contributing to peace in conversations with us? We are your sisters.  It also sounds like you are distorting scripture to promote a radical masculinist agenda.  Hmmm....

Your observations about scripture suggest that you are not so familiar with them.  A number of points which are widely known you will find interesting. Spoiler alert: I am not going to be pulling any rabbits out of hidden hats. 

The culture of Jesus's time was androcentric -- meaning "dominated by or emphasizing masculine interests or a masculine point of view."  With this in mind, an astute reader will then know s/he must be alert to the presence or absence of women in the text.  If women are mentioned, it is significant since they are not typically mentioned even if they were there.  If women aren't mentioned, the conclusion that they weren't there doesn't necessarily follow. 

To the careful reader, scripture provides solid clues about this.  For example, in the story of the 5 loaves and two fish, many casual readers (and even those familiar with the story) when asked will report there were 5,000 people. 
 
Listen closely:

From the Gospel of Mark:  "Those who had eaten the loaves numbered five thousand men."  In other words, Luke's report makes it sounds like a 'man only' event and there were only 5,000 of them.  Mark 6:44

From the Gospel of Luke:
  "For there were about five thousand men."  A man only event? ie no mention of women or children. Luke 9:14

From the Gospel of John:  "so they sat down, about five thousand in all." John's report is ambiguous. Did the 5,000 count include women and children? John 6:10
 
From the Gospel of Matthew:

Taking the 5 loaves and 2 fish....all ate.  And those who ate were about five thousand men, besides women and children. Matthew 14: 19-21.


Matthew is clear:although he does not include women and children in the count of 5,000, he speaks of their presence. Yes.  We women were there!  Readers lacking an eye for detail or meaning routinely miss this feature.
 
Think about it! If each man was in the company of one woman and one child, there were actually 15,000 people present.  We see how the androcentric nature of society and the text -- not of Jesus -- distorts the written record and the facts of the event. 

The prayerful reader of scripture is alert and pays attention to the signs and watches for clues! 

When the Gospels later describe the Last Supper, an alert and engaged reader paying attention to clues, notices variances in the reports before hastily jumping to the conclusion that there were 'no women there.'

In the Gospel of John, Jesus washes the feet of the 'disciples' at the Last Supper...as opposed to the feet of the 'apostles?'  John 13:5  no mention of the apostles?  is the word disciples a gender inclusive word?  was His mother Mary a disciple? or an apostle?  She wasn't one of the twelve? Were there other apostles?  Paul tells us there were.  And he used the term in a gender inclusive way.

And in Mark -- the Last Supper:  "Where is my guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?" Mark 14:14...no mention of apostles...only disciples.  What are we to make of that? 

Matthew -- the Last Supper:  "When it was evening, He took His place with the twelve." Matthew 26:20

Luke -- the Last Supper: "When the hour came, he took his place at the table, and the apostles with Him." Luke 22:14  How does Luke use the word 'apostles'...does he mean just the twelve?  or does he use it in the gender inclusive manner as did Paul?

And looking to Jewish tradition:  It has never been the practice that the Seder/Passover meal is a meal for men only.  The ritual was that the meal be shared with family and friends -- women and children included.  An astute reader could not jump to the immediate conclusion that Jesus  excluded His mother Mary and his close friend, Mary Magdalene (who He would later appoint as the Apostle to the Apostles) from the passover meal.

Six points:
  • Matthew only talks about 'disciples' at the Last Supper.  He doesn't mention any apostles.  Based on your line of reasoning, we could then conclude there were no apostles present?   Do you stand by that?  And the word 'disciples' -- how is that to be interpreted -- meaning 'men' only you say?  Why so?
  • Though Mark mentions the presence of 'the twelve,' he also shares about the presence of disciples.  Both apostles and disciples...without distinction as to gender?  On what grounds do you base your assertion that no women were present?
  • Luke uses the word 'apostles.' Query: does he use it in a gender inclusive way as did Paul?  ie, meaning both women and men.  If  the New Testament  names men and women apostles in addition to the twelve, why do you ascribe a male only meaning when the word 'twelve' is not mentioned?
  • in John, Jesus is washing the feet of the 'disciples.'  Note: disciples. He doesn't say 'male only' -- he says disciples.  Is it your contention that disciples is a masculine noun?
  • we know that Jesus was Jewish. We know the Last Supper was the Passover Meal.  It therefore makes sense to look at how Jewish people celebrate Passover Meal.  It is not a meal for men only.  It is an inclusive meal.  Everyone is included. So it makes sense:  when the Gospels tell us that disciples were present, there were more people there than just twelve men with Jesus.


Finally, if we struggle with ambiguities as to who was present, we must look to who Jesus was.  He did not model exclusion.  He constantly leads with a will to 'include.'  Over and over and over again, He welcomes the outsider.  He dines with women, tax collectors, sinners...  He stands up for the adulteress.  He spoke to the woman at the well (contrary to the concerns expressed by his followers.)  He is so moved by the Syro-phonecian woman's negotiation skill that He changes His mind.  His longest recorded conversation in scripture is with a woman.  He has only one human parent and she is a woman.  Given these highlights, if there is uncertainty as to who was present at the Last Supper, Scripture strongly suggests doubt be resolved in favour of inclusion.
 
It flies in the face of all that is known about Jesus to suggest that we should be guided by a rule that says:  when in doubt, assume it was a male only show.  Jesus showed us a different way.  He came to redeem.  He came to end separation.  He came to bring all people together in community.  He came for humanity. 

This is true to the Spirit of Jesus.

In Christ's peace may we share,

Therese
post edited by Therese - 2007/11/06 04:33:55
Therese
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 11:50:49 (permalink)
Matthew 26:26 tells us that ate with His disciples-- as opposed to only the twelve.

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body.

Mark 14:22 also tells us the disciples were present.  Is it your contention this means only men were there?

22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body.

and John 13:2-5 talks about the disciples present at the Last Supper.  Are you so sure it was only men?

2 The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

Oremus pro invicem!

'Let us pray for one another' as we endeavour to discern the will of God!
 
Therese
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 11:52:05 (permalink)
Sidebar:

Here is some information that illuminates the Passover Meal.  Please see the last section which talks specifically about how children are involved.  Recall androcentric text "And those who ate were about five thousand, not counting women and children."....not just a meal for men!

The Passover Seder (IPA [ˈseɪdər] or say-der) (Heb. סדר, literally "order" or "arrangement") is a special Jewish ritual which takes place on the first evening of the Jewish holiday of Passover (the 15th day of Nisan on the Hebrew calendar) in Israel, and on the first and second evenings of Passover (the 15th and 16th days of Nisan) in the Jewish diaspora. The next ones being on Monday night April 2 and Tuesday night April 3, 2007. Incorporating the holiday meal, the Seder relives the enslavement and subsequent Exodus of the Children of Israel from Ancient Egypt through the words of the Haggadah, the drinking of Four Cups of Wine, the eating of matzot, and the eating of and reference to symbolic foods placed on the Passover Seder Plate.

The Seder is considered an integral aspect of Jewish faith and identity. As the Haggadah—which contains the complete Seder service—explains, without the Exodus, the Jews would still be slaves to the Egyptian Pharaoh and would never have realized their role as a nation. Therefore this is an occasion for much praise and thanksgiving to God. It is considered a mitzvah to embellish one's retelling of the Exodus on this night. Often the Seder lasts into the early hours of the morning of the next day, as participants continue to learn Torah and talk about the events of the night and sing special Passover songs included in the Haggadah.

Unlike other public holiday observances that are traditionally held in the synagogue, the Seder is specifically designed to be conducted by a family at home, with or without guests. (However, the Seder may also be conducted by any group of people, including synagogue members, hotel guests, singles, students and travelers—see below, "Public Seders".) This focus is derived from the opening words of the Torah verse which is the source for the mitzvah of retelling the Exodus from Egypt: Vehegadeta levincha bayom hahu leymor ba'avur zeh asah Adonay li betzaysi miMitzrayim - "And you shall tell it to your son on that day, saying, 'Because of this God did for me when He took me out of Egypt" (Exodus 13:8). The words and rituals of the Seder are a primary vehicle for the transmission of the Jewish faith from parent to child, and from one generation to the next.

Focus on the children
 
Since the retelling of the Exodus to one's child is the object of the Seder experience, much effort is made to arouse the interest and curiosity of the children and keep them awake during the meal. To that end, questions and answers are a central device in the Seder ritual. By encouraging children to ask questions, they will be more open to hearing the answers.

The most famous question which the youngest child asks at the Seder is the Mah Nishtanah - "Why is this night different from all other nights?" After the asking of these questions, the main portion of the Seder, Magid, gives over the answers in the form of a historical review. Also, at different points in the Seder, the leader of the Seder will cover the matzot and lift his cup of wine; then put down the cup of wine and uncover the matzot—all to elicit questions from the children.

In Sephardic tradition, the questions are put to the leader of the seder, who either answers the question or may direct the attention of the assembled company to someone who is acting out that particular part of the Exodus. Physical re-enactment of the Exodus during the Passover seder is common in many families and communities, especially amongst Sephardim.

Families will follow the Haggadah's lead by asking their own questions at various points in the Haggadah and offering prizes such as nuts and candies for correct answers. The afikoman, which is hidden away for the "dessert" after the meal, is another device used to encourage children's participation. In some families, the leader of the Seder hides the afikoman and the children must find it, whereupon they receive a prize or reward. In other homes, the children hide the afikoman and the parent must look for it; when he gives up, the children demand a prize for revealing its location
Therese
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 11:58:44 (permalink)
Women were not invited to pray with Jesus and keep watch during his passion in the garden of Gethsemane.


Are you certain about this?

That would include female disciples......cough, gag, snort.....omg..! I am choking on my own spittle.....hahahah



You ought to get this checked out.  It sounds like it could be serious.

But, no women were around to follow him into the palace.



Are you certain?

The scripture also says that most of the women disciples watch the crucifixion afar off. There was in fact at least one male disciple in the immediate vicinity of the cross. "the disciple whom Jesus loved" and he took Mary the mother of Jesus into "HIS" house.


Just curious.  Are you 100% certain the beloved disciple was a man?

Now you know the biblical facts that you have distorted to promote your feminist agenda. And you wonder why we men will not allow you to teach.....????? It will never change. You cannot be trusted to handle the Word of God faithfully and we know it.




The old archetype of the men jealous that Jesus trusted Mary Magdalene with the Word of God rises again.  After all, He did entrust her to deliver the Good News of the Resurrection.  Other than the news of the Incarnation, what can be more important than that?

I look forward to hearing from you more.  I have more I would like to say and hope that we will have an opportunity to share!

In Christ's peace,

Therese
post edited by Therese - 2007/11/05 14:22:51
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 13:20:30 (permalink)
  The scriptural references to the young disciple are ambiguous and very sketchy.  Is this person actually a child of Mary Magdalene and Jesus.  This young person ran away when Jesus was arrested.  Was this to alert more people to tell them of Jesus's arrest, to inform Blessed Mother Mary, the grandmother what was happening?  The beloved disciple could very well refer to Mary Magdalene.
 
   Jesus broke gender barriers and fully allowed and chose women to represent him to the community, to be the Christ to others, and this is definately not a man only church.  Jesus chose women to do all priestly roles in the church and St. Paul continued this tradition. 
 
    Women were present at the Seders, Last Suppers, Passover meals as they are today.  The band of women and men disciples and apostles were with Jesus from the beginning .
 
  The bigger question is why, you who are so unlike Jesus in your snickering demeaning of women and your creepy wish to exclude women totally from the religion Jesus welcomed women into as true co-workers--what is the source of your wish to control, silence and belittle, exclude women?  It is your wicked divisive power bullying which finds no source in Jesus who said love and welcome your neighbour, the last shall be first, the first shall be last.  You totally do not represent or understand Jesus and Christianity.
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 13:48:08 (permalink)
  Ephesians 3 :17   I pray that Christ will make his home in your hearts and I pray that you may have your roots and foundation in love, so that you, together with akll God's people, may have the power to understand how broad and long, how high and deep is Christ's love.  Yes you may come to know his love--although it can never be fully known---and so completely filled woith the very nature of God.
 
  I urge you then-live a life that measures up to the standard that God has set when he called you.  Be always humble,gentle, and patient.  Show your love by being tolerant with one another.  Do your best to preserve the unity which the Spirit gives by means of the peace that binds you together.  There is one body and one Spirit just as there is one hope to which God has called you.  There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism;  there is one God and Father of all , who is Lord of all, works through all, a nd is in all.  Each one of us has received a special gift ." Ephesians 4:1-7.
 
Women too are part of the equation and also should be ordained as deacons and priests, no discrimination.
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 14:08:42 (permalink)
  Romans 16 :1-2   
 
 I recommend to you our sister, deacon Phoebe, who serves the church at Cenchreae,  receive her in the Lord's name, as God's people should, and give her any help she may need from you; for she herself has been a good friend to many people and also to me.
 
   I send greetings to Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in the service of Christ Jesus, they risked their lives for me.  I am grateful to them--not only I, but all the Gentile churches as well.  Greetings also to the church that meets in their home.  v. 3-5
 
   Greetings to Mary, who has worked so hard for you,  Greetings also to Andronicus and Junia, fellow Jews who were in prison with me; Junia is Foremost among the Apostles, and they were Christians before me.  My greetings to Tryphaena and Tryphosa who work in the Lord's service and to my dear friend, sister Persis, who has done so much work for the Lord. 
  
   v. 17, Romans 16   I urge you watch out for those who cause divisions and upset people's faith and go against the teachings which you have received.  For those who do such things are not serving Christ our Lord, but their own appetities.  Everyone has heard of your loyalty to the Gospel, and for this reason I am happy with you.  I want you to be wise about what is good and innocent in what is evil, The truth has been brought out into the open, and by command of the eternal God it is made known to all nations. "
 
   Further  Paul praises women for speaking outloud to all the assembly of the church, so how can you claim your anti-woman, silence and exclude women agenda?  It is not of Jesus or God or the true traditions or true teachings of the Gospel.    Yes ordain women in the Roman Catholic Church.
 
 
 
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 14:26:46 (permalink)
  Yes WOMEN are Disciples     Yes  WOMEN  are  Apostles,   full participants in the church of Jesus 2000 years ago and so it should be now.  Women ordained too.
 
Way more than '12'.
 
  Paul names 28           28       WOMEN   Apostles.    Yes to ordaining women.   Yes to the true traditions and true teachings of the Gospel and church of Jesus.
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 14:53:45 (permalink)
  Women to Jesus are truly    Original Blessing    not sin, not tainted.   Jesus has no sexual discrimination and no silencing or exclusion of women.
 
Jesus chose the much remarried, living with a boyfriend, Samaritan woman at the well, as Theological, Seminarian student directly taught by Jesus,  who appreciated her honesty, humility and faith and intelligence.
 
Jesus highly praised her to the men apostles that she was the Preacher of his Gospel that he was the Messiah to the Gentiles to Samaria.  He was so thrilled and happy about her that he had no need to eat the food the men brought back.  Jesus gave her the living waters of faith, taught her complex theology in  the longest recorded dialogue in the New Testament -with a woman too and Jesus!--and she gave Jesus spiritual nourishment of her great faith, intelligence, priestly preaching abilities and spiritual understanding.
 
Jesus leads the way and affirms women are worthy to represent him to all the community, women are his priests too, not silent, not subjugated to men, not excluded .
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/05 23:38:32 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest
The men fleeing during Jesus arrest was of short duration where as John and Peter followed him into the palace of the high priest. But, no women were around to follow him into the palace.

The women didn't waste their time with the Sanhedrin but went bringing about the biggest pressure they could bring to bear on the highest authority in the land they could directly easily access: Pilot's wife.  They were almost successful in their attempt; Pilot's wife at the 11th hour demanded a stop to Christ's persecution by the Sanhedrin, but Pilot feared the Sanhedrin's possible ability to foment a general revolution more than he feared his wife and the wrath of his gods she threatened him with.  He apparently completely forgot all about the fact that his wife's powerful relatives and friends back in Rome might have something to say on the matter in her favor.  Pilot's non-decision of washing his hands and failing to take charge and consult Rome on the matter completely ended his political career right then and there and his commission was rescinded and he was called back to Rome in disgrace. 
 
Christ was crucified exactly because an otherwise intelligent Roman general was far too arrogant and far too stupid to listen to his wife's wisdom and political and religious savvy.  Arrogance and stupidity combined with total disregard for the wisdom of women is a fine ancient Roman tradition from the period of the fall of the Roman empire that you personally seem very intent on preserving.  It's not Christian, it's not Christ-like, but it's as Roman as the collisseum and the gladiators and that toga you appear to be wearing. 
 
However, you do raise one very important point, and one that is vastly underestimated in the modern day...
the fact that they did engrave "Roman" long before they ever engraved "Catholic" onto that rock on which they built the Church, giving "Roman" a glaring priority and precedence over "Catholic."  I feel that it is an important point that should never be underestimated.  It presents a valid question that needs to be raised: "Just how ROMAN is Catholicism?  How ROMAN should it be?  Is it more ROMAN than Christ-like?  Should it be more ROMAN than Christ-like?"  Many saints and martyrs have asked this question.  It's a good one.
 
woman who votes with feet
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/06 02:21:40 (permalink)

It is ironic that the person in the Gospel who is reported as trying to intervene and save Jesus was a pagan woman (Pilot’s wife).
 
Men had all the power and authority and yet no courage.
 
Herod the Great orders the slaughter of the innocents in an attempt to kill Jesus.
Pharisees plot to kill Jesus.
Judas betrays him.
The chief priests and the entire Sanhedrin try to obtain false testimony against Jesus and condemn him to death.
Peter denies him.
Pilot sends him to Herod Antipas.
Herod Antipas sends him back to Pilot.
Pilot washes his hands.
Roman Soldiers beat him and crucify him.
Eleven Apostles hide after the crucifixion.
 
Nice going guys.
 
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/06 10:45:16 (permalink)
  There are women apostles, named in the New Testament who accompanied Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem and the crucifixion and resurection:  Mary Magdalene, Mary Salome and Joanna/Junia  and Susanna plus Blessed Mother of Jesus Mary, and other women.  28 apostles are named who are women.  New Testament.
 
   Disciples, apostles who were women ,chosen by Jesus, given important jobs by him just like the men---anointing the Messiah, announcing the Resurrection, witnessing the crucifixion, preaching to the Gentiles, missionaries, church leaders often providing out of their own resources to the disciples, providing homes in which to hold church, being deacons and prophets and preachers and missionaries--women doing it all and praised by Jesus and Paul.
 
The New Testament tells us the truth, equality for women, full co-workers in the church.
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/08 03:29:47 (permalink)
News for ya sisters, Between the beginning of the last supper and Jesus being led away to be crucified there is no mention of any woman. Astounding ! Women were not invited to the last supper.


Hello dear friend,

My name is Sophie.  I am the Moderator of dialogues here in the Circles forum.  If you have some questions, please do not hesitate to ask. We gather here in the spirit of Christian dialogue. While we certainly do welcome questions and challenges to our position, we welcome them in fellowship with Christ.  I trust you catch my drift!

I have read your posts with interest.  Your comments about the Last Supper caught my eye.  One of the main arguments made against our case is the assertion that 'there were no women present at the Last Supper!'

Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece, The Last Supper, seems very much to have shaped many people's point of view.  For many Christians, it is the clearest image they have of Christ's last meal with his disciples. However, the point must be made clear.  Though da Vinci's painting is great art, is not an entirely reliable source of history.  For instance, many of the details in the painting are inaccurate:
  • The painting shows daylight outside the window, but the actual Last Supper took place at night.
  • The figures are seated about the tables on benches. In fact, Jesus and his disciples reclined on couches.
  • Da Vinci shows a meal of fish and ordinary bread.  Contrary to the painting, we know that the Passover meal consists of unleavened bread, roast lamb and bitter herb.
  • Da Vinci shows only Jesus and the twelve apostles.  In other words, da Vinci omits:
    • women.  The Passover meal is one that is eaten by whole families... including women.
    • children. The laws of Passover require children to ask questions so that they can learn the meaning of the Passover meal from their parents.
    • the disciples who prepared the meal during the day.

  • Da Vinci shows thirteen Renaissance Italian males in oriental costume in a Florentine palace when in fact the meal is a Jewish celebration of the Passover in Palestine.

"There were no women at the Last Supper?" Certainly women and children would be present at the Passover meal.  Several documents from our www.womenpriests.org library explain the evidence that supports this aspect of our case.  For your ease of reference, links the articles are here:

In the first article, Meals of the Community, author Suzanne Tunc explores key points that include:
  • Jesus ate meals with the people he preached to
  • Living with Jesus presupposed participation in meals with Him
  • Jesus's Last Supper
  • The Presence of Women at the Last Supper
  • The Meals of the Lord of the Early Communities.

Once again, the link to her article is here: http://www.womenpriests.org/scriptur/tunc.htm

In the second article, Bible Liturgy Concur: Women Were There,  author, theologian, and attorney Marjorie Reiley Maguire carefully assesses the evidence. And as her title suggests, the conclusion is:  Women Were There! The link to her article is: http://www.womenpriests.org/scriptur/maguire.htm 

Please enjoy the information!  If you have any questions, let me know.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
post edited by Sophie - 2007/11/08 03:47:06
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/08 03:32:50 (permalink)
a sidebar note of interest:

In order to counter Leonardo's powerful image of the Last Supper, BASIC  (the acronym for the Irish organisation:  Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Praying and Working for the Ordination of Women in the Roman Catholic Church) commissioned the eminent Polish artist Bohdan Piasecki to paint the Last Supper as a Jewish Passover meal with women and children present. The painting is oil on canvas measuring 20" by 48" (50 by 120 cm).  A copy of it is here:

post edited by Sophie - 2007/11/08 03:40:44
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/08 03:34:46 (permalink)
The Artist Bohdan Piasecki



Bohdan Piasecki, who created the Last Supper painting for BASIC, is one of the most famous contemporary Polish artists. He has lived and worked as an artist in Italy, Canada and France. He is Secretary of the Polish Academy of Art, and is now living with his wife Teresa in his home town of Okuniew, near Warsaw.
post edited by Sophie - 2007/11/08 03:40:16
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/08 10:50:55 (permalink)
  I have a print of this beautiful Last Supper painting by Bohdan Piasecki.  It features women and children and men and is a delightful portrayal of the Christian community, inclusive and full of the divine and real love Jesus has for all of us in the community of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  My family and friends love this Last Supper painting .
 
Our world includes women and children and so does the New  and Old Testament include women, men and children therefore it is good that this portrait of the Last Supper includes women and children too.  God bless. 
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2007/11/09 13:31:42 (permalink)
re da Vinci's version of the Last Supper -- it can now be viewed on line.

Da Vinci's Last Supper Goes On Line
By Colleen Barry, The Associated Press
October 29, 2007

MILAN, Italy - Can't get to Milan to see Leonardo Da Vinci's masterpiece "The Last Supper?" All you need is an Internet connection. Officials put online an image of the "Last Supper" at 16 billion pixels - 1,600 times stronger than the images taken with the typical 10 million pixel digital camera.


The high resolution will allow experts to examine details of the 15th century wall painting that they otherwise could not - including traces of drawings Leonardo put down before painting. The high-resolution allows viewers to look at details as though they were inches from the art work, in contrast to regular photographs, which become grainy as you zoom in, said curator Alberto Artioli. "You can see how Leonardo made the cups transparent, something you can't ordinarily see," said Artioli. "You can also note the state of degradation the painting is in."


Besides allowing experts and art-lovers to study the masterpiece from home, Artioli said the project provides an historical document of how the painting appears in 2007, which will be valuable to future generations of art historians.


The work, in Milan's Church of Santa Maria delle Grazie, was restored in a painstaking effort that wrapped up in 1999 - a project aimed at reversing half a millennium of damage to the famed artwork. Leonard painted the "Last Supper" dry, so the painting did not cleave to the surface in the fresco style, meaning it is more delicate and subject to wear.


"Over the years it has been subjected to bombardments; it was used as a stall by Napoleon," Artioli said. The restoration removed 500 years of dirt while also removing previous restoration works that masked Leonardo's own work.


Even those who get to Milan have a hard time gaining admission to see the "Last Supper." Visits have been made more difficult by measures to protect it. Twenty-five visitors are admitted every 15 minutes to see the painting for a total of about 320,000 visitors a year. Visitors must pass through a filtration system to help reduce the work's exposure to dust and pollutants. "The demand is three or four times higher, but we can't accommodate it because of efforts to preserve the painting," Artioli said.
- On the Net: http://www.haltadefinizione.com
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2008/07/22 01:49:27 (permalink)


Today, July 22, is the feast day of Saint Mary Magdalene, devoted friend of Jesus, woman preacher, first witness and herald of the resurrection, woman leader in the early Church and Apostle to the Apostles.
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2008/07/22 16:15:59 (permalink)

 
Mary Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles
 
Her feast day is today!
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RE: Mary, the Magdalen: Apostle to the Apostles 2008/07/22 16:22:30 (permalink)
from our friends at www.futurechurch.org

Mary of Magdala– Apostle to the Apostles

Not a Prostitute

Mary of Magdala is perhaps the most maligned and misunderstood figure in early Christianity. In Christian art and hagiography, Mary has been romanticized, allegorized, and mythologized beyond recognition. Since the fourth century, she has been portrayed as a prostitute and public sinner who, after encountering Jesus, repented and spent the rest of her life in private prayer and penitence. Paintings, some little more than pious pornography, reinforce the mistaken belief that sexuality, especially female sexuality, is shameful, sinful, and worthy of repentance. Yet the actual biblical account of Mary of Magdala paints a far different portrait than that of the bare-breasted reformed harlot of Renaissance art.

First Witness to the Resurrection

Nowhere in scripture is Mary of Magdala identified as a public sinner or a prostitute. Instead, scripture shows her as the primary witness to the most central events of Christian faith, named in exactly the same way (Maria e Magdalena) in each of four gospels written for diverse communities throughout the Mediterranean world. It was impossible to relate the story of the Resurrection without including "Mary, the one from Magdala."

Luke 8,1-3 tells us that Mary traveled with Jesus in the Galilean discipleship and, with Joanna and Susanna, supported his mission from her own financial resources. In the synoptic gospels, Mary leads the group of women who witness Jesus' death, burial, the empty tomb, and His Resurrection. The synoptics contrast Jesus' abandonment by the male disciples with the faithful strength of the women disciples who, led by Mary, accompany him to his death. John's gospel names Mary of Magdala as the first to discover the empty tomb and shows the Risen Christ sending her to announce the Good News of his resurrection to the other disciples. This prompted early church Fathers to name her "the Apostle to the Apostles."

That the message of the resurrection was first entrusted to women is regarded by scripture scholars as strong proof for the historicity of the resurrection accounts. Had accounts of Jesus' resurrection been fabricated, women would never have been chosen as witnesses, since Jewish law did not acknowledge the testimony of women.

Early non-canonical Christian writings show faith communities growing up around Mary's ministry, where she is portrayed as understanding Jesus' message better than did Peter and the male disciples. Scholars tell us that these writings are not about the historical persons Mary and Peter but instead reflect tensions over women's roles in the early church. Prominent leaders such as Mary and Peter were evoked to justify opposing points of view. What is not disputed is the recognition of Mary of Magdala as an important woman leader in earliest Christianity.

What Happened?

Why are contemporary Christians uninformed about Mary's faithful discipleship and prominent leadership role in the infant church? One explanation is a common misreading of Luke's gospel which tells us that "seven demons had gone out of her." (Luke 8,1-3) To first century ears, this meant only that Mary had been cured of serious illness, not that she was sinful. According to biblical scholars such as Sr. Mary Thompson, illness was commonly attributed to the work of evil spirits, although not necessarily associated with sinfulness. The number seven symbolized that her illness was either chronic or very severe.

Women Leaders Suppressed

In 312, when Constantine made Christianity the religion of the empire, the Christian community was caught in a cultural conflict as it moved from worship in house churches where women's leadership was accepted, to worship in public places where women's leadership violated Roman social codes of honor and shame. In the fourth century, male church leaders at the Council of Laodicea suppressed women leaders because of the belief that women were created subordinate to men. During this same time period, we see the memory of Mary of Magdala changing from that of a strong female disciple and proclaimer of the Resurrection to a repentant prostitute and public sinner. Scholars such as Dr. Jane Schaberg believe this was done deliberately to discourage female leadership in the church.

As knowledge of Jesus' many women disciples faded from historical memory, their stories merged and blurred. The tender anointing of Mary of Bethany prior to Jesus' passion was linked to the woman "known to be a sinner" whose tears washed and anointed Jesus' feet at Simon's house.

The anointing texts combined all of these women into one generic public sinner, "Magdalen." Misidentification of Mary as reformed public sinner achieved official standing with a powerful homily by Pope Gregory the Great (540-604).

Henceforth, Mary of Magdala became known in the west, not as the strong woman leader who accompanied Jesus through a tortuous death, first witnessed his Resurrection, and proclaimed the Risen Savior to the early church, but as a wanton woman in need of repentance and a life of hidden (and hopefully silent) penitence. Interestingly, the eastern church never identified her as a prostitute, but honored her throughout history as "the Apostle to the Apostles".

Prominent Female Leader, Not Jesus' Wife

The 2002 publication of The Da Vinci Code ignited widespread controversy about the true role of Mary of Magdala. Unfortunately, Dan Brown's book, while an engaging fictional narrative, has done a disservice to the historical Mary of Magdala and other early women church leaders. Though The Da Vinci Code conveys a beautiful ideal of the essential unity of male and female, it is ultimately subversive to women's full and equal leadership in the church because it focuses on the fiction of Mary's marital status rather than the fact of her leadership in proclaiming Jesus' resurrection.

There is no historical or biblical data to support speculation that Mary of Magdala was married to Jesus. The contention that ancient writers didn't mention their marriage and offspring for fear of Jewish persecution doesn't really hold up because John's gospel and most of the apocryphal literature were written after the fall of Jerusalem, when there would have been nothing to fear from Jewish authorities. If Mary of Magdala were Jesus' wife and the mother of his child, it is highly unlikely that these texts would have omitted these important facts, especially since she is prominently portrayed in both as the primary witness to the resurrection and a female leader who, in many ways, understood Jesus' mission better than did the male disciples.

If Jesus were married, it wasn't to Mary of Magdala, because then she would have been known as "Mary the wife of Jesus," not Mary of Magdala. Literary and social conventions in antiquity dictated that if women were mentioned (a very rare occurrence) they were nearly always named by their relationship to the patriarchal household, for example: "Joanna the wife of Herod's steward Chusa" (Luke 8,1-3). Atypically, Mary of Magdala was named according to the town she was from (not by her relationship to a man). Biblical scholars believe this indicates that she was probably a wealthy independent woman not bound to the patriarchal household.

Contemporary scholarship has rightfully restored our understanding of Mary of Magdala as an important early Christian leader. Now she becomes the same inspiring role model for twenty-first century disciples that she was for first century Christians.

In 1997 FutureChurch in Cleveland began a special celebration of the July 22nd feast of Mary of Magdala. The event was designed to promote contemporary scholarship about Jesus' inclusive practice and to provide a place for women to serve in visible liturgical roles. The popularity of the celebrations grew rapidly from 23 in 1997 to several hundred each succeeding year. They are held in Catholic parishes, Protestant churches, retreat houses, schools, convent chapels, private homes, and include special celebrations during Lent and Holy Week.

Please join us in the annual celebration of Mary of Magdala’s feast day on July 22nd.
References:
Brock, Ann Graham. Mary of Magdala, the Struggle for Authority. Cambridge, Mass.:Harvard University Press, 2003.
Eisen, Ute E. Women Officeholders in Early Christianity: Epigraphical and Literary Studies. Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 2000.
Fiorenza, ES. "Feminist Theology as Critical Theology of Liberation." Theological Studies, 1975.
Haskins, Susan. Mary Magdalen, Myth and Metaphor, NY: Harcourt-Brace, 1993.
Housley, Kathleen. "Solid Citizen or Prostitute- Two Millennia of Misinformation." Dialog, Fall 1998.
King, Karen. The Gospel of Mary of Magdala: Jesus and the First Woman Apostle. Polebridge Press, 2003
Kitzberger, Ingrid Rose. "Mary of Bethany and Mary of Magdala." New Testament Studies, Oct. 1993.
Ricci, Carla. Mary Magdala en and Many Others. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1994.
Schaberg, Jane The Resurrection of Mary Magdalene New York: Continuum, 2002.
Thompson, Mary R. Mary of Magdala, Apostle and Leader. New York: Paulist Press, 1995.
Links to articles written about Mary of Magdala:

http://www.futurechurch.org/marym/

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post edited by Sophie - 2008/07/22 16:24:16
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