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Women as Mothers

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Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:16:18 (permalink)
This from a Guest...
 
~s~
 
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My sister (who believes everything from the Vatican without question) is a frequent visitor to the Catholic endorsed Spirit Daily website. Attached is an affirmation from a link on that website. Perhaps this is why I may have questions about motives of the Vatican regarding their newfound enlightenment on women's issues.


                                                               Affirmation for Catholic Women
Because of the assaults against the Christian Faith and the family by elements within contemporary society which have led to pervasive moral confusion, to damage and destruction of families and the men, women and children who comprise them;
Because we adhere to the Catholic Christian faith as expressed in Holy Scripture, the Nicene, Apostolic and Athanasian Creeds, in the ecumenical Councils of the Church, and in the continued deepening of the understanding of the revelations of Sacred Truth to the Church by the Holy Spirit through the teaching authority of the Church and of the Successors of Peter, Apostle;
Because we wish to affirm our desire to realize our vocations and our duty as Christians and as women in accordance with these authentic teachings, following the example and instruction of Our Savior Jesus Christ, and the example of Mary, His mother;
Because we are cognizant of our obligations as Christian women to witness to our faith, being mindful that this witness is important to the formation of the moral conscience of our families and of humanity, we wish to make this affirmation:

1. We believe that through God's grace our female nature affords us distinct physical and spiritual capabilities with which to participate in the Divine Plan for creation. Specifically, our natural function of childbearing endows us with the spiritual capacity for nurture, instruction, compassion and selflessness, which qualities are necessary to the establishment of families, the basic and Divinely ordained unit of society, and to the establishment of a Christian social order.

2. We believe that to attempt to subvert or deny our distinct nature and role as women subverts and denies God's plan for humanity, and leads to both personal disintegration and ultimately to the disintegration of society. Accordingly, we reject all ideologies which seek to eradicate the natural and essential distinction between the sexes, which debase and devalue womanhood, family life and the nurturing role of women in society.

3. We affirm the intrinsic sacredness of all human life, and we reject the notion that abortion, the deliberate killing of unborn children, is the "right" of any human being, male or female, or of any government. Such a distorted and corrosive notion of individual freedom is, in fact, inimical to authentic Christianity and to the establishment and maintenance of a just social order.

4. We accept and affirm the teaching of the Catholic Church on all matters dealing with human reproduction, marriage, family life and roles for men and women in the Church and in society.

5. We therefore also reject as an aberrant innovation peculiar to our times and our society the notion that priesthood is the "right" of any human being, male or female. Furthermore, we recognize that the specific role of ordained priesthood is intrinsically connected with and representative of the begetting creativity of God in which only human males can participate. Human females, who by nature share in the creativity of God by their capacity to bring forth new life, and, reflective of this essential distinction, have a different and distinct role within the Church and in society from that accorded to men, can no more be priests than men can be mothers.

6. We recognize and affirm the vocations of women who subordinate their human role of motherhood and family life in order to consecrate their lives to the service of God, His Church and humanity. Such women's authentic response of consecrated service to the physical, spiritual and/or intellectual needs of the community in no way diminishes or compromises their essential female nature, or the exercise of inherent attributes, insights and gifts peculiar to women. Rather, it extends the applications of these gifts beyond the individual human family.

7. We stand with the Second Vatican Council, which took for granted the distinct roles for men and women in the family and in society and affirmed that Christian education must impart knowledge of this distinction: "In the entire educational program [Catholic school teachers] should, together with the parents, make full allowance for the difference of sex and for the particular role which Providence has appointed to each sex in the family and in society. (Declaration on Education, Sec. 8, paragraph 3, from Vatican II Documents, ed. Austin Flannery, 1981)

8. We pledge our wholehearted support to the teachings of Pope John Paul II concerning all aspects of family life and roles for men and women in the Church and in society, especially as contained in the Apostolic Exhortation, Familiaris Consortio; and we resolve to apply the principles contained therein to our own lives, our families and our communities, God being our aid.


overall it grinds down to the basic concept that women are to be mothers.  Exception to the rule is a consecrated virgin.




 
In many ways, I can see they have laudable goals in their hearts.

Many children (not all) do suffer when both parents are working out of the home. This is more and more the case.

But I see it as wrong that the brunt of responsibility for the family should fall solely on the shoulders of women. This whole stream of thinking is also where dead beat dads come from -- they take off knowing that the women will be there to care for the children.

Ideally family is a co-parenting situation.

The other problem about groups with these perspectives is that they seem to do very little to advocate for women who find themselves the heads of single parent family units.

WAsn't it an American policy at one time to find a groom for every single mother? I know where the thinking came from. Though well intentioned, it really failed to go to the heart of co-parental responsiblity for children.
Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:17:16 (permalink)
 
 
This from a Guest...

~s~

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overall it grinds down to the basic concept that women are to be mothers. Exception to the rule is a consecrated virgin.


That's how I read it also. they are against women priests becasue it would make them a man in their view. Any role or relationship that seems to be "masculine" is taboo for a woman.
Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:19:05 (permalink)
This from a Guest...
 
~s~
 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 
We believe that through God's grace our female nature affords us distinct physical and spiritual capabilities with which to participate in the Divine Plan for creation. Specifically, our natural function of childbearing endows us with the spiritual capacity for nurture, instruction, compassion and selflessness, which qualities are necessary to the establishment of families


I never can understand how these features are supposed to be distinctively 'female.'

Shouldn't men have these virtues, too?

I wouldn't be interested in spending time with -- much less my life -- with a man who didn't have these qualities.

What does your sister say about that?

 
She doesn't think about it.
Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:19:41 (permalink)
This from a Guest...
 
~s~
 
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Jesus attracts us because he is compassionate and loving and promotes justice, strength, integrity.  I think at some level your sister does get it and does want men to be good parents too, and not just have women alone as nurturing caring parents.

To say men alone are spiritual and represent Jesus and God and women alone are body, are mothers and fleshy and not spiritual and women do not represent Jesus and God is not what Jesus or God teaches, and not good for the family, and children.

I am sure at some level she does understand that.

It is harmful to subject and overpower anyone, for men to lord it over women and not get involved in being a loving, nurturing parent who cares emotionally, physically, socially, financially, spiritually for the children and his wife.

For the Catholic hierarchy of Rome to teach that men ought to abandon women and children emotionally, spititually, physically leads to total abandonment and economic abandonment too. 

Spiritual and emotional poverty enforced on women because of Vatican notion that women are intrinsically lesser spritual beings, leads to financial and legal and social poverty of women and children too. 

By making women and children the base physical animal nature and men only as spiritual who image Jesus and God and saying women do not image Jesus and God. and are animal flesh only, puts women and children in great harm and promotes denigration, deprivation and abuse of the "lesser" beings, women and children.

I think at some level she is aware of the implications of such a horrid "theology of the body' of Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:20:15 (permalink)
 

This from a Guest...

~s~

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A clergy of elite "celibate' male priests  only , several of whom,  who do not value or consort with women, many sadly and horrifically have used or still want to use children for sexual predation purposes,  ends up being a very dangerous to society group.

The male clergy want  male children only to "groom' into priests and only male children have any value to them, and these men avoid women and girls.  This is not the way Jesus had his church.  He had a group of both women and men apostles, disciples.  He enlisted many women fully as his clergy.
Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:21:14 (permalink)
This from a Guest...
 
~s~
 
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Question:   Jesus says we must be 'like children to enter the kingdom of God',

               then the Popes' idea that 'only men image God' is not true.

               'The last is first, first last', children and women count too.

                Another major way Popes' teachings  about 'only men are Jesus'  are not Christ's.

                Women too are children of God, and image Jesus too.  Daughters and son of God.
Sophie
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/02/12 02:21:47 (permalink)
This from a Guest...
 
~s~
 
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Here's where Paul does not match Jesus,
 
1. Paul says "put away childish things" yet Jesus tells us be "like children in our relationship with God". Jesus values kids, women.
 
2.  Paul, at times too in addition,  does not match Jesus when he silences women .
 
    Jesus encourages women to speak and dialogue and question him. Jesus never silences women instead he gets women to
 
announce publically, preach in public, dailgue with him, asks theological questions, asks requests, argue with him,
 
Jesus listens and grants women's requests.
 
Paul's influence on Catholicity becomes at odds then with what Jesus teaches. 
 
 Whenever Catholic doctrine and rules don't follow Jesus that doctrine and those rules  need to be changed to what Jesus taught and did. 
 
 Ordain women.  Do not silence or shut out women.
Therese
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/03/25 14:32:42 (permalink)
It would be interesting to know how these stats compare to men. And what are the numbers of men who bear primary responsibility for child rearing?

Having Kids Costly for Educated Moms
by Carly Weeks
The Globe and Mail
March 25, 2009

Highly educated women face a much more severe loss of earning power when they have children compared to mothers with less education, says a report published yesterday by Statistics Canada.

The findings help shed light on the social and economic realities that are pushing more Canadian women to delay childbirth and have fewer children.

The report, which looked at the earnings of women with and without children from 1993 to 2004, also highlights the consequences of government decisions to steer away from pay equity, establish a national child-care program and improve unemployment insurance and other benefits for women, according to gender equality experts who predict the problem will only worsen in the current economic climate.

Mothers who are highly educated earn less than childless women with similar degrees of education, the report found. But the wage gap between less-educated mothers and childless women with similar amounts of education is far less evident. The only significant gap existed among those between the ages of 27 and 34.A possible explanation is that highly educated women have careers that require specialized skills, said Xuelin Zhang, senior research analyst in Statistics Canada's Income Statistics Division and report author.

When they leave the work force to have children, they may lose some of those skills or have difficulty catching up to those who didn't have an extended interruption in working, Mr. Zhang said.

Women without a university education, however, are more likely to be in jobs that don't have a high skill requirement, which means they don't face as big a learning curve when they return to work.

But one law professor said the demands of family life mean many university-educated mothers are forced to leave high-paying, demanding careers for part-time work or jobs that pay less but offer shorter hours, more benefits and security.

"It's a huge burden for women," said Kathleen Lahey, a professor in the Queen's University Faculty of Law who does work on gender analysis.

Adopting strong pay-equity legislation could help blunt the impact of the wage gap mothers experience, according to Sue Calhoun, president of the Canadian Federation of Business and Professional Women's Clubs.

But an even bigger issue may be the fact that Canada doesn't have a national child-care program, which means spaces are often costly and hard to find, Prof. Lahey said.

In some situations, that means women step away from their careers to stay at home or take jobs with reduced pay, while men assume the role of primary breadwinner.

It's a reality that helps to explain why so many Canadians are having children later and reducing the number of children they have, she said.

"It's really quite out of date to think that people are just going to have an unlimited number of children without regard to the cost," Prof. Lahey said.

University-educated women may see the biggest drop in earning power after having children, but single mothers earn significantly less and face greater struggles to raise children as a result.

The report said that over all, women with children earned 12 per cent less per hour than childless women.

But single mothers earned about 20 per cent less than single childless women. Meanwhile, married or common-law mothers earned 10 per cent less than married women who didn't have children.

The wage gap between mothers and childless women doesn't seem to become significant until a woman is well into her 20s. The report found that in 2004, at age 20, the hourly gap in earnings between mothers and childless women was $8.60 and $9.50, respectively, a difference of 10 per cent.

At age 30, hourly earnings of mothers averaged $15.20 in 2004 compared to $18.10 for childless women.

The wage gap between mothers and childless women also increased depending on the number of children. Women with one child earned 9 per cent less than childless women, a gap that jumped to 12 per cent for women with two children, and 20 per cent for women with three or more children.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090325.wmothers25/BNStory/lifeMain/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/04/07 01:49:09 (permalink)
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RE: Women as Mothers 2009/04/08 00:20:26 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Therese

It would be interesting to know how these stats compare to men. And what are the numbers of men who bear primary responsibility for child rearing?

Having Kids Costly for Educated Moms

 
People in this world are always looking for ways to discriminate against women and limit their opportunities. Having children is just one of them.
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