Women Can Be Priests
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Tell us why you are here

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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/09/23 16:43:24 (permalink)
   Jesus treated women with equality and respect. He entrusted Mary Magdalene to inform the others of his resurrection.  He discussed with the clever and thoughtful Samaritan woman at the well about the living waters of faith  and then empowered the Samaritan woman at the well to go to her town and be his apostle, ambassador and tell them the good news about him. This is the longest dialogue in the New Testament. He empowered her even though she was  female not male, a Samaritan not a Jew, a woman who had had many husbands and lovers and was currently living common law and Jesus knew it- he still regarded her with equality and entrusted her to preach the good news about Jesus.
    Jesus healed Jarius daughter from death, he healed the woman with the bleeding that had lasted years.  Women were not dirty untouchable scum that holy men should ignore and dismiss. Their role was not to be limited to motherhood only but to full participation in the church.  His mother Mary was not a quiet submissive woman. She told him to turn the water into wine  and with his brothers and sisters tried to get Jesus to consider his safety when preaching. Read the New Testament again and these passages can not be denied.  Certainly not a silent mother as the church tradition has tried to portray  Mary.
    Paul acknowledges, recommends, praises many women in the early Christian church and informs the groups to accept and welcome these women. He later states it is his opinion  that people should try to stay unmarried, women should be silent as in Jewish temples of that time,  but this is not what Jesus said and did. 
    Jesus told Mary Magdalene to proclaim his resurrection and the Samaritan woman of the well to spread the good news about Jesus.  The suppressed Gospel of Mary expresses Peters jealousy of Mary. This is petty and cruel of Peter to deny what Jesus clearly granted.             Yours in Faith--Just read the New Testament and take a look at The Gnostic Bible edited by Wallis Barnstone- amazing  early religious writings Also recommend Womens Writing In the Middle Ages book
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/09/24 08:07:16 (permalink)
"The Gnostic Bible"... *sigh*
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/09/24 13:18:50 (permalink)
The above author only mentioned one "gnostic" text.
The rest of the points the above author made are supported by your own Catholic Bible, if you've got eyes to read it.... *sigh.*
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/09/28 20:06:56 (permalink)
GOD IS GREAT = GOD IS LOVE = GOD IS YOU.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/09/29 00:24:03 (permalink)
?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/09/30 10:36:29 (permalink)
God is love - God is you if you let him.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/03 04:56:38 (permalink)
"God is you"? So, God is me? So, I'm God? I'm omniscient, omnipotent, eternal, infinite, creator of heaven and earth? Man, I didn't notice that, the stuff you learn these days... XD
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/03 08:57:08 (permalink)
Ha, no, the individual said "God is you" NOT "you are God"
there is a huge difference there!
If all cats die, and Socrates is dead, that doesn't mean that Socrates was a cat.
God manifesting through you: (i.e. "God is you") means your faith the size of a mustard seed can indeed move mountains by the power of God at the point you're willing to sacrifice all that you are in favor of the will of God.
As for you manifesting through God: (i.e. "you are God") ..... ha! one drip does not make the vast oceans!
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/04 01:10:45 (permalink)
Actually, the verb "is" can mean two things when used in the form "A is B":

 (i) A is B, i.e., the objects A and B are totally equal (as in "Cervantes is the author of Don Quijote")
 (ii) A is B, i.e., the object A belongs to the class B (as in "Germany is a country")

The "God is you" sentence cannot be an example of the type (ii), because the B in the sentence would have to be a class (that is, a set of objects with a common property, like being mortal) and 'you' refers to an individual object, not a class or set of objects. Then, "God is you" is an example of the type (i). So the sentence is saying that A = "God" and B = "you" are totally equivalent, which is false.

And "to be" is not the same as "to manifest through", so that interpretation doesn't give validity to the "God is you" sentence.

But, sacrificing all for the will of God, that is absolutely correct. I have nothing to add. Blessed be the Lord.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/07 03:48:49 (permalink)
The above argument is a valid one, however it fails to take modern quantum mechanics into consideration.
As God exists beyond our extremely limited 4 dimensional reality, the verb "to be" must be put in a form that reflects that condition, ergo: "manifests as."
 
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/09 07:36:01 (permalink)
I am neither Catholic nor a Christian, and am constantly surprised by the devotion of Christian women to a religious tradition that holds them in such low esteem.

 I am organizing a modern Western religion based on common sense, humanism, and non-dogmatic spirituality.  A lot of priests down through the centuries have abused the powers people give them, so I think a new religion should be like the earliest religions and have only priestesses.  As Elizabeth Peabody said, "Women give society it's character."  

I 'm here because I'm curious about the women who want to be priestesses.  Is Catholic priesthood their only option?  Are there women who might be interested in being non-Christian priestesses?    I suppose time will tell.

Lucretius
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/09 21:31:36 (permalink)
What's the point in organizing a new religion? Ours was founded and organized by Christ our Lord; why would anyone want to join a man-made religion?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/10 06:35:20 (permalink)
Yours is a most excellent religion, and can boast a splendid founder.  As you'll understand, Christianity is based on faith, which is a gift.  For reasons of His own your Lord chooses to withhold the gift of faith from some of us, leaving little choice but to organize our own way of interacting with the divine. 

This appears to be primarily a Catholic site, and my intention isn't to challenge that - or any other - faith.  My interest is in learning about the thoughts of women who want to serve a religion that rejects their vocation.  Is it that the rejection is seen as coming from men eager to preserve their own positions, rather than from God?  Risky position since so many men are willing to speak up on behalf of a silent divinity.

Women were priests long before the first man donned the robes and took the collar.  That was before Jesus straightened everyone out, of course, but it remains an interesting bit of history.

Lucretius
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/10 21:48:24 (permalink)
Faith really isn't a gift, given or withheld by God.  Faith is something one learns by experience, over time, by simple observation of the world.  God is a lot like gravity.  You don't need faith for it to work, it is everywhere, it holds the universe together, and it just IS.
 
Just like with gravity, after a while, through observation and experience, one learns that when one spits in the air, it lands in one's face.
Just like with gravity, after a while, through observation and experience, one learns that love and life exert an inexhorable pull that nourishes and supports, just like gravity.
 
God doesn't require faith at all, only observation.  Things in alignment with God nourish and support love and life and last throughout time and do not create suffering.  Things not in alignment with God don't nourish and support love and life and don't last throughout time, and they create suffering.  It's simple.  Christ said it was simple: LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
 
Ah, but how hard it is to love one another....especially others who are not like us!
And how much easier it is to love the other, when we can CONTROL the other, and make the other over in an image that serves and pleases us!  Hence our difficulties with gender.... and with Christianity.
 
It was so much easier for men to love women, when women were taught that they must remain silent and obedient to men..... wasn't it?  Two world wars later, with most of their fathers, husbands, and sons dead, the women would no longer simply remain silent and obedient to the male hierarchy that brought them such power structures in the world fully capable of destroying all life on the planet.  Women questioned their sole "vocation" of being mommies of children the all-male-hierarchies of the world were intent on killing.
 
The wars also threw people together from all over the world.
It was just so much easier to love people when they all looked like us, thought like us, sounded like us, shared our thoughts and preferences and ethnicity and culture and language.... (Christ didn't actually say that we had to love Buddhists, or Native Americans or Moslems or Hindus or pagans after all, now did He? So there!)
In spite of the world throwing us all together with people from all over the world, we still go on and on, insisting on narrowing our concept of love down and down and down until love is limited to our relatives and friends and neighbors who go to our particular church..... well maybe, maybe we can manage to love them at least, if perhaps they are Catholic enough, orthodox enough... maybe!
Or maybe not... maybe not even then!
We're all such good Christians, after all, at loving one another like Christ told us to.  Aren't we?
 
As for the position of women in Christianity.... it's complicated.
Women in nature tend to form circles.  Inner and outer circles, but egalitarian circles within themselves nonetheless.
Men in nature tend to form straight line hierarchies and vy for position in same accordingly according to dominance.
If you want to represent God accurately, you can't have either a straight line hierarchy, nor inner and outer egalitarian circles, but a helical structure that encompasses both the male and female design aspects of God.
 
The female egalitarian circle may look like the best response to the testosterone-driven male straight line hierarchy, but it too would be doomed to failure, and for the exact same reason.
Neither the male straight line hierarchy nor the female egalitarian circle (concentric circles) organizational model provides adequate balance nor accurately models the truly helical design aspects of God.  Take a look at the code you were built on.... see that it is helical?  Helical.  Such is the face and the design of God.
 
Why do women stay in the testosterone-driven straight line male hierarchy dominance system? 
They seek to bring it into balance.
Bringing things into balance is unfortunately a slow and gentle process of somewhat less than sweeping and dramatic moves.
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/10 22:55:24 (permalink)
The "ambition to balance" is an interesting suggestion for women's dedication to Christianity.  The concept of a helical God is a creative metaphor, though it implies that women run circles around men as men travel in their straight lines.  

As for faith, to quote from the Catholic encyclopedia...

Again, it is evident that this "light of faith" is a supernatural gift and is not the necessary outcome of assent to the motives of credibility. No amount of study will win it, no intellectual conviction as to the credibility of revealed religion nor even of the claims of the Church to be our infallible guide in matters of faith, will produce this light in a man's mind. It is the free gift of God. Hence the Vatican Council (III, iii;) teaches that "faith is a supernatural virtue by which we with the inspiration and assistance of God's grace, believe those things to be true which He has revealed".

We who merely observe the world uninspired are more likely to lose faith than to gain it.

Lucretius
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/11 04:59:57 (permalink)
Although, the knowledge of God can be obtained by reason alone.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/12 03:23:35 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest
Although, the knowledge of God can be obtained by reason alone.


It's a comforting thought, and I'd enjoy the discussion.  Aquinas did a credible job of laying out the argument.  The concept that one can reason to the existence of a God has been thoroughly disproven more than once by better minds than mine.  Best idea is to rely on your Faith, and leave the "arguments from reason" to those who need a philosophy lesson.  I don't think even your Jesuit brethren would take on defending it anymore.

Friendly regards,

Lucretius
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/12 05:39:38 (permalink)
No, curious thing: the fact that you can reach the knowledge of the existence of God (and some of His attributes) is itself a dogma of faith.

You could try Socrates. Or Peter Kreeft.

Given their tremendous preparation, I'm sure that any Jesuit would be more than ready to talk about it.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/12 07:40:55 (permalink)
For those of us with neither money nor time to study philosophy, looking down the wrong end of a loaded gun, hearing it go off, realizing the guy missed, and knocking around staring at walls afterward wondering "why am I still alive? I shouldn't still be alive" provided a real quick practical lesson on faith and God.  Of course, if the guy hadn't missed, it would have provided a real quick practical lesson and faith and God too.  They don't teach that at the university.  Dogma smogma, there's no athiests in foxholes, there's more athiests at universities.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2006/10/12 16:49:01 (permalink)
TO SOME ON THIS SITE, YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE AND LIVE IT!!!! GOD IS ONE AND ONE IS ALL. 
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