Women Can Be Priests
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/14 15:30:30 (permalink)
Keep in mind PBXVI removed the excommunication from the SSPX group yet still has not removed the excommunication from the ordained women group, and the men who support the women who are ordained.  The pope  discriminates against the women simply because they are female, are women.  This is very wrong of the pope.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/14 15:35:30 (permalink)
In the PBXVI clarification letter about his SSPX lifting of excommunication, the pope still does not denounce the anti-women statements made by Bishop Williamson of the SSPX,
 
  The pope does not condemn the hatred and prejudice and bigotry against women of Williamson., 
 
 It is as if the pope agrees to the misogyny and anti-women bigotry of Williamson. 
 
 Why does the pope condemn  only the anti-semitism of Williamson and SSPX but not the misogyny of Williamson and SSPX?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/14 15:38:25 (permalink)
Does the pope by his silence on Williamson's anti-women policies indicate that the pope agrees with Williamson"s views and policies on women, no university for women, women are child breeders and only that role is for them and women must not wear trousers are some of Williamson's ideas.  Women can not handle learning ideas and have not the intellectual capacity of men according to Williamson.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/16 05:00:58 (permalink)
I'll grant you that the documents put forth purporting to explain why a change in the discipline of ordaining only men is theologically not possible put forth arguments that look more like collanders than caldrons (that is, that don't hold water) and fail to answer significant arguments the other way.

But that said, I do believe that a change in discipline would not be opportune right now. The reality is that theologians have made significant progress in theological diologue with the churches of the Orthodox Communion and with the ancient eastern churches that have brought us closer to a restoration of unity, which is our Lord's explicit will (see John 17), than at any other time since the Great Schism. None of those churches now practice ordination of women, and several of them are vehemently opposed to it. Thus, unilateral a change in discipline right now would pose a new obstacles to the restoration of full communion on at least two fronts -- theological (they oppose it) and political (a unilateral change in which they don't concur). I have no doubt that a unified church will need to address this issue, but it is not opportune to do so NOW.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/16 14:17:21 (permalink)
Thanks for your input about women and ordination.  I disagree with you, however, in that  the injustice and mistake of continuation of not ordaining women, needs to be corrected now, not later. 
 
Jesus in effect "ordained" women as much as he "ordained" men.  Jesus did not call anyone "priest" however, Jesus chose women as co-workers, as Apostles, Preachers, Teachers, Anointers, Missionaries, and chose women to do all sacred duties that men did, with Jesus's praise. 
 
 Continuing to ignore the example, actions, tradition, teachings of Jesus who granted spiritual, pastoral equality to women is not what we should do. 
 
 Let us unite the schisms in true Unity with Jesus Christ and God and Holy Spirit, and ordain women too.  Thank you again for your ideas, and please explain further your take on this very important issue.  It prevents many people from attending church due to the Vatican's rejection and abuse of women and girls. 
 
It is schismatic of the Vatican to bar women from ordination.
 
It is the Vatican hierarchy that is schismatic to the Catholic church ,the laity and many theologians precisely because the Vatican, unlike Jesus, dismisses and rejects the spiritual gifts and dignity and vocation of women.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/16 14:37:35 (permalink)
It is always time to do what is just and obedient to Jesus Christ.
 
 Jesus Christ showed us women too have Apostolic Succession, the same as men do.
 
It is never the time to be apathetic and cowardly and not stand up for the marginalized and abused.
 
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/16 14:39:55 (permalink)
Hmmm, Jesus was careful with his enemies. 
 
 Jesus chose his words carefully when dealing with treacherous Pharisees who were full of tricks and malice.
 
Jesus says in the bible he will give us words of wisdom to deal with the enemies of mercy, love and justice.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/16 14:42:28 (permalink)
PBXVI is hostile to women.  How does one deal with that?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/17 15:24:16 (permalink)
  "Beannachtam na Feile Padraig !"       Happy St. Patrick's Day, Everyone!
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/17 15:28:30 (permalink)
  "Slainte !"   (Health!  Pronounced "slawn-cha" and a toast much like "Cheers".)   Irish.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/18 02:45:43 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

 I have no doubt that a unified church will need to address this issue, but it is not opportune to do so NOW.


 
On exactly what day will the vehement opponents of women’s ordination be ready to accept women priests? Do we set aside our moral integrity for the sake of unity in the hope that maybe in 100 years the bigotry against women might cease?
 
The Church should be setting the example not waiting around for someone else to do it for them.
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/18 11:32:23 (permalink)
Face it, There is NO Unity when women and girls are excluded and marginalized, shut out of ordination.
 
Women treated as "outsiders" "lesser beings than men" "evil Eves in perpetuity" "unredeemed females forever".
 
That's no Unity either to do that to 50% of the Catholic community and world.
 
By the way, what is the point of Jesus saving us if women do not get saved and redeemed and the Catholic clergy still think women and girls are left out of the redemption grace of God and Jesus Christ?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/18 11:40:36 (permalink)
Waiting for unity with Orthodox Catholics, with Eastern Catholic churches, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox before women get ordained????   That is no reason to not ordain women as deacons and priests!
 
That is just like in 1840 waiting for these churches to get in unity and still saying "we must not stop racism and slavery till after all Catholic churches unite as Roman Catholic."
 
That is like saying in time of Galileo "we can not accept science about the solar system till after all the Catholic churches unite, till Byzantine church and Russian and Greek Orthodox all unite with Roman Catholic church."
 
This is like saying "we can't end the Inquisition torture, murder and appropriation of the property and goods of women till after the churches all unite with the Roman Catholic church. We have to wait first for all Catholic churches to unite under Rome, then we may proceed to correcting these great errors."
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/18 19:04:01 (permalink)

But that said, I do believe that a change in discipline would not be opportune right now. The reality is that theologians have made significant progress in theological diologue with the churches of the Orthodox Communion and with the ancient eastern churches that have brought us closer to a restoration of unity, which is our Lord's explicit will (see John 17), than at any other time since the Great Schism. None of those churches now practice ordination of women, and several of them are vehemently opposed to it. Thus, unilateral a change in discipline right now would pose a new obstacles to the restoration of full communion on at least two fronts -- theological (they oppose it) and political (a unilateral change in which they don't concur). I have no doubt that a unified church will need to address this issue, but it is not opportune to do so NOW.

They've made progress toward consolidating and unifying rapidly emptying churches. Wow.  At the point the unified church is completely empty perhaps they'll eventually consider addressing the issue of why their concept of theology has failed to inspire the devotion of future generations, but by then it will be more than a little late.
 
woman who votes with feet
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/18 19:59:05 (permalink)
LOL     Woman Who Votes With Her Feet    You are so funny!   Truly it is easy to "unify" a collection of empty churches!  Thanks for your insight and great wit!
 
  Also for your obvious great love for the church and expression of concern and sorrow for the devastation currently going on in the Catholic church of the "all male , no women allowed, cult" going on today.
 
  Why can not the Vatican be reasonable and be like Jesus, celebrate and accept and value women as equals to really help the church as ordained priests, deacons?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/20 11:20:03 (permalink)
In 1866 Pope Pius IX proclaimed that slavery was legitimate and acceptable.
It was not until 1965 that the papacy proclaimed slavery was wrong.
Sadly the papacy lacks moral, ethical and religious integrity, mistreats abuses children and women.
The Pope lacks moral and ethical leadership on too many issues.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/20 20:30:08 (permalink)
On March 17, 2009, Pope says no condoms for Aids.  It's alarming to hear Pope Benedict XVI saying that Aids "cannot be overcome by distributing condoms--it only increases the problem." The Pope is completely out of touch with reality and advocating inhumane policies that will increase the suffering of innocent people throughout the world.  His message is very disturbing and scary, and most likely to cause more division in a church already racked by disagreements on numerous issues, from the role of women in church to Holocaust denials.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/20 21:23:43 (permalink)
                                  March 2009     Catholic Church Chat
 
Greetings from your friendly Catholic Church Lady. The Pope is so busy, busy, busy flying about in his PopeMobileAirBusJetLiner all the way to Cameroon and Angola! 
 
 Meeting with those progressive African bishops, why many of them have wives and children already that meet them when they get off their planes after going to Bishop conferences . Such innovations that many clergy have in Africa. See NCRonline.org for the news. Interesting! The news tells us  also that the new bell for the church there did not toll for the Pope, due to as the Bishop relates,  embezellment of over 500,000 dollars which then means there is no bell to toll. 
 
 Now the Pope is treated to African dance, African music, drums at the mass.  The Pope will soon put a stop to that and replace it with Mozart and Gregorian chat.  The Pope and the "liturgy police squad" will be reporting all those "liturgical abuses" like they are encouraged to do by the Pope in the West here, in U.S. of A. and Europe.
 
The Pope wants no condoms used to stop Aids.  Now the Pope's medical advice and social and scientific advice in this regard is very much  worrisome.  Very worrisome.
 
 Will he ordain women in Africa as priests and deacons as the same predatory abuse of children must be guarded against in Africa.  The Catholic Church needs the leadership and wisdom of ordained women too. Here is an innovation all the Catholic church would benefit by.
 
The Pope has got out a welcome mat for SSPX anti-semites, misogynists and Holocaust deniers lately. For them he champions "mercy and unity."  He still will not give any "compassion or unity or mercy" to excommunicated women or priests who support women and married men as ordained.  Hmmm, this is troubling behavior on his part.
 
 I will have to ask the Pope to stop, think and reflect  about what he says and does .  He'll need to  join us on the Catholic Church Chat couch to think over what words come out of his mouth, and actions (since he started his papacy, hmmmmmmm,) 
 
 Clicking my rosary beads very earnestly these many a day, from  Catholic Church Lady.
 
 God bless you all.  Pray for the much beleagured Catholic Church and its Catholics. Women are chosen to serve the church too, by Jesus, no doubt about that!  Get on board for that, Pope Benedict XVI.
 
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/21 00:19:47 (permalink)
                                                             Unity.
 
  Man and woman are one.  One in the Lord.  Woman or man we are all one in Jesus Christ. Why does the Vatican not recognize this unity too?  Why be divisive and deny women service in the church?  Why treat women as the "unredeemed other", why did Jesus come if  not to redeem us all, women too?  Why does Rome pretend women are perpetually sinful creatures who can never image God or serve God yet man can image God and serve God?  Did Jesus come for nothing?  Does Rome not understand Christianity, or Jesus Christ?
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/21 01:51:28 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

                                                             Unity.

Man and woman are one.  One in the Lord.  Woman or man we are all one in Jesus Christ. 
 

 
One bread, one body,
one Lord of all,
one cup of blessing which we bless.
And we, though many,
throughout the earth,
we are one body in this one Lord.

1. Gentile or Jew,
servant or free,
woman or man, no more.

2. Many the gifts,
many the works,
one in the Lord of all.

3. Grain for the fields,
scattered and grown,
gathered to one, for all.

Text: Based on 1 Corinthians 10:16-17; 12:4, 12-13, 20; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 4:4-6; The Didache 9. Text and music © 1978, John B. Foley, S.J. and OCP. All rights reserved
 
Why does the Vatican not recognize this unity too?  Why be divisive and deny women service in the church?  Why treat women as the "unredeemed other", why did Jesus come if  not to redeem us all, women too?  Why does Rome pretend women are perpetually sinful creatures who can never image God or serve God yet man can image God and serve God?  Did Jesus come for nothing?  Does Rome not understand Christianity, or Jesus Christ?

 
You ask good questions.  I don't think Rome understands very much at all.  Often it seems that they have their own man ideology that they worship. 
 
Can it even be called a 'man' ideology since they seem to put themselves above the ordinary 'man.'
 
Their perspective: poor man (meaning humanity.)  What would he do without us?
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