Women Can Be Priests
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/22 03:07:56 (permalink)
'Hope doesn't come from calculating whether the good news is winning over the bad. It's simply a choice to take action.'

- author Anne Lappé

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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/22 23:41:55 (permalink)
Pope BXVI in March 2009 declared from June 2009 to June 2010 The Year of The Priest.
 
PBXVI chose 18th century Jean Vianney, Cure of Ars France, as model priest. 
 
 Vianney was an army deserter, into severe mortification, solitude and not collegiality or community, and attributed any miracles people thought he did to Saint Philomena instead.  The church has since discontinued Saint Philomena, Vianney's favourite saint, as a saint.
 
At the same time we have St. Therese of Lisieux from France too in 1800's and made Doctor of the Church.
She quotes the bible over 1000 times in her writings and proclaims her vocation to be a priest and apostle.
 
In this Year of the Priest, let us work hard to also ordain women and married men and women, just as Jesus chose married women and married men too as his apostles, not only celibate ones.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/23 16:17:38 (permalink)
The pope does not even know that there are women apostles.  He does not know about Mary Magdalene or Junia as he keeps saying there are only men apostles.  That's a serious lack of knowledge he has. 
 
 How can the pope get educated about the religion he's in? Major hurdles when it comes to PBXVI and the health of the Catholic church.
 
The pope announced the Year of Priest, hmmmm.  Get to ordaining married people, like what Jesus chose: married: St. Peter was married, most of the apostles were married.  Get to ordaining women, too, and most of the women apostles were married too, wife of Chuza, Susanna, Joanna, Aquila, Priscilla, Lydia, Chloe, Phoebe and many more.  Year of Priest.  Solutions to shortage of priests and monitor community too if women chosen as well. Ordain women.  Be great Year of the Priest then.  Big improvement in the Church then.  God bless.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/23 19:01:38 (permalink)
The Vatican says that there were no women at the Last Supper of Jesus.

Yet they produce documents like "Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Suppe." (Actually this may be the US catholic bishops.)

So what does this mean? I guess that men are happy because they are called to His Supper and who cares about the women.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 01:04:55 (permalink)
The Vatican would like to have us believe that women cannot be priests because the priesthood is incompatible with women's nature... because we lack the wrong material.
 
In the Vatican's Inter Insigniores, the Pope gives three reasons why women can't be priests: 1) Jesus intentionally excluded women from ordained ministry; 2) the Church's continuous and hence infallible tradition has excluded women from ordination; 3) the priest represents Christ who is a male.  His maleness is not a social accident but intrinisic to who he is.  Jesus after all represents God the Father.
 
What the Vatican doesn't  tell us is that these reasons aren't part of so called 'tradition.'  The 'traditional' reasons that women were excluded from priesthood were based on bold faced ugly reasons: 1) women are naturally defective and lack capacity to exercise any social leadership; 2) women are unclean; 3) women are the source of sin.
 
Surprise, surprise.
 
It wasn't until the civil rights movement and the women's rights movements in the 1960's that the Vatican finally had to admit that these reasons could not stand up to any kind of scrutiny.  They are baloney reasons based on prejudice. 
 
Well at least the VAtican had the sense to stop trying to churn out this baloney.    One could expect those kinds of reasons coming from the likes of the Klu Klux Klan.
 
So what do we have today?  The VAtican pumping out heresy that only men are in the image of Christ.  That only men can represent Christ.  That only men bear a likeness to Christ.
 
Heresy is what it is.  Absolute heresy.
 
And they have the audacity to say that they stand up for truth.   More baloney.  More baloney coming from the Vatican. 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 01:43:04 (permalink)
What's their big hang up about women being ordained?  Whatare they afraid of?  I don't get it.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 10:26:35 (permalink)
                             Lies The Papal "Father" Told Us :  How PBXVI Is A Hypocrite
 
Africa, March 22, 2009  Pope Says "Discrimination Against Women  Is No Part of God's Plan"
 
  Pope said in Africa March 22, 2009 that "discrimination against women is no part of God's plan." 
 
 How come it is part of his own plan and that of the Vatican hierarchy to discriminate against women in the Roman Catholic church, despite the fact that God forbids such discrimination?
 
  Several African women however said that the pope's message is undercut by what they see as a pattern of discrimination inside the church itself.
 
  See the strand Pope Benedict in this website. 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 10:41:13 (permalink)
       Excluding Women From Ordination Not Part of God's or Jesus's Plan For Women
 
  The Vatican and Pope's stance that discriminates against women's vocation in the church does not derive from the plan of God or Jesus.
 
1.  Jesus intentionally INCLUDED women in his ministry.
 
Fact: Jesus chose 7 women apostles/disciples at the start of his ministry from  the beginning in Galilee to Crucifixion to Resurrection to Pentacost and Early Church.
 
Fact: Jesus chose Martha to tell her he was the Messiah.  Jesus chose Mary Bethany to be a Seminary Theology student, directly taught his Gospel theology by Jesus himself, no restrictions.
 
Fact: Jesus chose Mary Bethany at a meal with all present during his lifetime to anoint his head and no one protested.  Mary Bethany anoints the Messiah, a woman in effect in the role of Bishop, chosen by Jesus.
 
Fact; Jesus was directed by Blessed Virgin Mary to begin his first public miracle at Cana.
 
Fact: Jesus chose Woman Apostles Samaritan Woman to be taught his Theology, just like a Seminary student, by Jesus.  He informed her he was the Messiah, he praised her for being the Apostles, Preacher to the Gentiles of Samaria, said she did a better job than the male apostles.
 
Fact: Jesus made the male apostles learn from Mary Magdalene about his awesome Resurrection.  Jesus chose a Woman Apostle to teach them, to be the leader about the most important event of Christianity, Resurrection.
 
Fact: Jesus forgave and saved the life of the adultress, cured the "unclean" hemorraging woman, raised Jairus's daughter from the dead, the widow Nain's son from the dead.  Martha and Mary Bethany got him to raise Lazarus from the dead.  Jesus had no discrimination at all for women.  Women image God too and are not perpetually sinful or unredeemed or less than men spiritually or pastorally.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 10:49:21 (permalink)
2.  Church previously continuously had women as leaders and apostles, prophets, preachers, anointers, priests, deacons, even bishops in the Early Church.
 
Scripture, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, New Testament, archeological evidence, archival evidence, papal letters, apostolic and church manuals all reveal that women were deacons, priests, even bishops in the Early Church.
 
Junia is called Foremost Apostle Among the Apostles by Paul.  Phoebe is highly praised too as deacon of Cenchrae by Paul. 28 women apostles are praised highly by Paul. 
 
Fact: Women were ordained in the Early Church. That plan of God and Jesus to include women has not been maintained by the popes.  The popes discriminated against women, not God or Jesus.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 10:56:09 (permalink)
3. Christ deliberately chose women too to represent him.  God is both mother and father, as Jesus calls God with images of women too.  God is a "Bakerwoman, making the Bread of Life."  God is a " Mother Hen, Gathering Her Chicks Under Her Wings."  God is a "Widow Rejoicing in Finding Her Lost Coin."
 
God deliberately chose Mary Magdala to witness and proclaim his Resurrection, to represent with her leadership the Gospel, Good News of Jesus, to teach and lead the male apostles who had run away in fear.
 
God deliberately chose Samaritan woman to represent him to the Gentiles of Samaria with his full consent, approval and delight. He teaches her his theology, he praises her highly, he gives her the Living Waters of Faith, he admonishes his male apostles that she does a better job than they do.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/24 13:52:47 (permalink)
                                                  Pope Driven By Medieval Politics
 
   The pope's impossible double standard : Abstinance is a great and noble idea unless you happen to be a woman living in a Third World country, in abject poverty, with no rights, no power and no voice.
   What makes the pope's comments so repugnant is that he is well aware that there is no such thing as abstinance without gender equality in both politics and religion.
    His willingness to sacrifice the lives of millions of women and children to the immoral behaviour and cultural prejudices of men has nothing to do with the word of God, and everything to do with medieval politics.
    K. Duffy
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/03/28 02:48:44 (permalink)
Dear friends,

I am writing to share news about current online course offerings in Catherine of Siena Virtual College.  The College is a new venture led by a community of outstanding internationally respected women academics and theologians who are concerned about the plight of women worldwide. The College specialises in gender studies.  One of its aims is to empower women for personal agency and leadership in secular and faith communities. Courses are designed to help people see the origin of social, religious and cultural prejudices that have kept women in second class status...tackling the roots of prejudice against women so to speak.

I will share more about the work of the College. In the meantime, I know that many among us will be interested in the round of current course offerings slated to begin on April 13, 2009.  Informational links about the College are here:
According to promotional literature,  two of its courses are currently offered at 50% off the usual price.  These courses are:
I am excited to share that our website founder, Dr. John Wijngaards was invited to contribute to the College syllabus.  His two courses will be of specific interest to anyone concerned about the exclusion of women from sacramental ministry.  These courses are:
I have had a glimpse at each of these two courses. They are top notch. On behalf of the Team here at www.womenpriests.org, we are so pleased to see this international recognition of Dr. Wijngaards work.

Let me know if you have questions. 

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/02 15:54:16 (permalink)
Pope Orders Apostolic Visitation on Legionaries of Christ Fr. Maciel, Founder, Sexual Abuse Scandals
 
Vatican City-- April 2, 2009   The Pope has ordered an Apostolic Visitation to discover who was complicit in Fr Maciel 's scandals , the founder in 1941 of Legionaries of Christ, who died last year age 87.
 
Victims of Maciel's sexual abuse of boys, youths and seminarians started to report his abuse in 1979 both to the order and to Pope John Paul II , and again asked for investigation of Maciel in 1995 and subsequent.  These requests for investigation into the predatory sex abuse of boys and seminarians by Maciel were ignored and silenced.
 
It has come to light that Maciel fathered a daughter who is now in her 20's and also embezzled funds from the order.  The order has about 800 priests in over 20 countries.
 
In 2006 Maciel was disciplined by the Vatican to retire to a life of 'prayer and penance" because of charges he had molested boys and seminarians for decades. 
 
Washington based Catholic theologian, George Weigel, said the probe will have to discover who within the order was complicit in Maciel's deceit.
 
However, the Vatican under Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI ignored the requests for investigation  and reports of abuse by Maciel of boys and seminarians and youths which were first reported in 1979, then again in 1995 and onwards.
 
Will the Vatican be included in the Apostolic Visitation investigation in terms of its complicity in the continuation of the sexual predation of Legionaries of Christ altar boys , youths, seminarians and some girls , abused by Maciel and its involvement in ignoring and silencing the victims ?
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/05 07:16:25 (permalink)
Pope John Paul II and Ratzinger Ignored Reports of Maciel Abuse on Altar Boys, Seminarians
 
Cover-up, Silence Victims by Pope John Paul II, JPII Lavished Praise On Maciel, Ignored Abuse
 
 Abuse Reported in 1978, then 1995,  So Victims Had to Go to Rome, File Canon Law Case Versus Maciel
 
Monsignor John A. Alesandro, Canon lawyer Rockville Center dioceses confirms that two of  Fr. Maciel Dellagodo's sex abuse victims (abused at age 10, and 12, some till age 24)  Juan Vaca and Jose Barba sent detailed letters to Pope John Paul II of being repeatedly abused sexually by Fr Maciel Dellagoda .  Alesandro confirms that documents were sent in 1978, to John Paul II  in Rome, as well as to the Legionaries of Christ order,  and detailed correspondence about 8 victims of Maciel's abuse again in 1989. Vaca's request to resign  his priesthood over this abuse by Maciel was accepted however JPII ignored the reports of Maciel's abuse and did nothing about it and kept on honoring Maciel who was a great fund raiser for the Legion of Christ order.  Vaca and Barba had to travel to Rome and file a canon case directly to Rome to get any investigation started as it was just ignored by JPII and Ratzinger.
 
This revictimizes the victims, disparaged those who tried to end the abuse, shows the cover-up continuance of JPII and Ratzinger.   The cover-up of this scandal is the  product of secrecy, privilege, lack of accountability. 
 
 Ignoring victims, protecting the abusers, tolerating  and encouraging denial  of abuse and  promoting deceit by the abuser --- a clerical culture that allows sex abuse to flourish.
 
JPII and Ratzinger now Pope Benedict XVI ignored the victims and allowed the abuse to continue, including the  sex abuse, theft and embezzlement charges which were  first reported in 1956 along with Maciel's drug abuse (reported first in 1956 as well).
 
Even the very early history of Maciel : he had four uncles who were bishops as he came from a prominent family.  He was expelled from two seminaries, these expullsions have never been explained.   Maciel got an uncle to ordain him a priest after this uncle gave him some private studies.  This nepotism is how he started his priesthood. 
 
Maciel called his victims his "apostolic schoolboys" and made them declare a vow of silence, that they would never criticize him and would inform on any who did, and told them Pope Pius XII had given Maciel permission to abuse the boys. Maciel taught his Legionaries of Christ schoolboys, altar boys and seminarians  that Maciel was a "living saint." These boys were abused from 1943 to 1960.  Over 30 victims have reported being sexually abused by Maciel and the sexual abuse also occured past 1960 with other victims, including seminarians.
 
 
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/05 07:23:46 (permalink)
      Catholic Church Needs Balance and Community of Ordained Women Too
 
It is a great sin and scandal too that women are not allowed to be priests and deacons in the Roman Catholic Church.  The Church needs the balance and community of women as ordained priests, as seminary co-leaders, teachers, professors, to provide true community and co-leadership , and goverance , decision making participation in all matters of the Roman Catholic church.
 
It is wrong that women who were chosen to be Apostles and Disciples by Jesus , have been denied their place in the Catholic church.  This has led to great problems in the Church, such as the horrific sex scandal abuse and cover-up, whose dreadful legacy of destruction, despair, harm still reverberates and continues.
 
Be the Church that Christ established and ordain women too and give full dignity and vocation to women, as Jesus did 2000 years ago.
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/05 15:51:22 (permalink)
Palm Sunday .  God Bless You!  Hosanna In the Highest!
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/05 23:16:04 (permalink)
I am here because my life journey has led me here.  I have taken a very strange and circuitous route.  I began as a feminist, anti-war and part of the 'revolutionary 1960's/70's.  Then, through years of life: work, motherhood, relocation, new influences- I found myself in the strange position of professing born-again Christianity and was baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I was always blessed with the gift of faith.   I struggled mightily to learn and studied the life of Jesus, the scriptures, and wrestled deep within myself to find the truth-about God's covenant relationship with us, the saving mission of Our Lord, and how we were meant to follow now-how should we be living this gospel story?  What should it look like? How do I now see the problems of the people in my community, of the greater nation and world around me?  What role am I called to play here?  I learned about submission to God's will the hard way, and was granted the astounding joy of grace in this.   My marriage failed, and I suffered a terrible depression, and heard God calling me to become a Roman Catholic.  I studied, I prayed, I went through the rites of christian initiation and was confirmed.  Hallelujiah, I am home!!! This is the true way for me...I sponsored others in RCIA, and everything was great, but then, I fell off a cliff into a dark place away from God.  I could not feel my way, pray, my children have drifted and are in doubt-I grew more and more withdrawn.  I love the church. But I think she is in trouble and the world is in more need of her than ever. I believe that I am called to be a priest.  I thought about joining a religious order, and I may do once my children are safely on their way as adults.  But I stumbled upon this website over a year ago, and never returned, and, today I was clearing out my favorites and found it again. And I do feel so called to this.  I am so frightened for the future of our church.  I am so ashamed for what we have done to our Lord's sacrifice-how we have distorted it in our attempts to place ourselves in position of power, of esteem, among our fellow men.  I believe that it is time we women ask God to lead us and take our rightful (and responsible) place in the body of Christ as each is so called to do.  As preists, as deacons, as religious, as teachers, musicians, cantors-however any of us is gifted and called.  There is so much distress about the place of the church in the world.  So many saying "we must go back; back to when it was safe and predictable, when everyone knew their place-" but that is where we were when Jesus came to us 2,000 years ago. If our faith is to proclaim the Living Resurrected Christ, we must go forward and make the Body whole.  And I think that ordaining women as priests and deacons may be the only way forward now.  I have struggled with these ideas because I am only too aware of how self-interest has formed the doctrine and practices of the church through history.  I don't want to be part of another false and destructive split-but I also think that we can choose how to go forth.  I think Martin Luther could have made another way to pursue the reforms he was called to make.  I think the East and West could have prevented the great Schism...and perhaps, if women had been able to remain equally among the leadership it never would have happened.  But Jesus came to show us what it meant to be fully human.  And I don't believe he intended for the destructive patriarchy to continue. I think he wants leaders who are servants, who are humble, who are shepherds. We cannot turn away any longer from the fact that true community will never exist as long as we permit the status quo of self-interest to reign.  We know what the kingdom of God is supposed to look like.  I so want to connect with others who think and feel as passionately as I do about this!!! I am tired of my hopes and thoughts and ideas swirling around in my own head with no one to share them with, to learn from.  Thank-you for asking-what a breath of fresh air to be wanted and noticed! And thank-you for reading my answer.    

Blessings,
Betsy
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/06 12:26:32 (permalink)
Dear Betsy   I read what you wrote and love your enthusiasm and expression of profound faith and love for the Church.  There are many very important ideas in it .  When you say that the Church has distorted the sacrifice of Christ, are you referring to the way the popes JPII and BXVI have taken Von Balthasar's idea that Eucharist is the orgasm of a male priest as the sacrafice of mass ( and therefore claim only a man can be a priest), instead of the body, blood, wine, bread concepts that is really what the mass is about and is spiritual and not sexual to me and can be as priest, either woman or man to me. 
 
Is that what you refer to as the great distortion of the mass that is now going on in Roman Catholic papacy theology?  I find the popes' Theology of the Body idea of separation of man, woman, etc.  as so wrong(we are supposed to be instead One in Christ, not separated man, woman as popes'  wrongly say no woman can represent Jesus or God). It should instead be Theology of New Testament, Jesus, with women recognized as actual Apostles and also true humble servants of God, (priests) like the men are. Please explain more what you mean.  I appreciate your ideas.  The Church so much needs reform.   from Janet
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/06 12:37:49 (permalink)
  In New Testament, Book of John, (Chapter 4) Jesus tells the Samaritan woman that God is Spirit,  not Body.  So the way JPII and BXVI and theologian pal of their's Hans Urs Von Balthasar have cooked up a theology of the body is very wrong as far as I can see and is doing so much harm by foisting this false doctrine on us.  It devalues women and laity men  and denies women their place in the Church.  What do you think and how do we get the papacy to return to what is in the New Testament instead and stop this destructive false theology and practises?    Janet
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RE: Tell us why you are here 2009/04/06 22:50:46 (permalink)
   Our hearts go out to all the people of central Italy and all their loved ones in the world because of the terrible earthquake in Italy.
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