Women Can Be Priests
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womenchurch and the rise of homotheism

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2008/10/09 15:39:20 (permalink)

womenchurch and the rise of homotheism

I believe that god can be just as well a woman as a man. I love women therefore if I have to love god then I rather have that it is a woman. But in the bible god is always described as a man, that has lead to that men take all important religious positions. I find that dishonestly. Women must also be able to reach high religious positions. For this reason I propose a woman pope. But not only that, I want that women can get power just like men on all religious positions. That has lead to the eventual proposal the womanchurch.
 
The woman church is meant for men and women.
 
The woman church is based on the belief that Adam and Eve were god and their posterity therefore also, according to this belief god is love between two people, and the ultime expression of it is community. God reaches life/manifistates itself with a relation between two individuals who care for each other in good and bad times, can forgive each other, understand each other, persuade each other, accept each other, etc.
 
I say that Adam and Eve were god with a number of reasons:
 
At 1st: Equal treatment of men and women, that god is only a man and therefore men may proclaim the belief and women may not, I am for example in favor of a woman priest, pope, imam, rabbi, etc.
At 2nd: I find that you are best of when you believe in yourself and with the declaration believing that Adam and Eve were god it means that god is in yourself.
At 3rd: Adam and Eve are the ultime expression of god, god is in everything, but not everthing can decide for itself, Adam and Eve however could, they had the ultimate freedom to choose.
At 4th: From the belief that Adam and Eve were god and their posterity therefore also, it means that there is only one human ras.
At 5th: Adam and Eve are models for love and fertility, people may identify themselves with Adam and Eve. Basically, every man should find its Eve and every woman should find its Adam. But since Adam and Eve were god, and therefore also the posterity of them. I thereby state that Adam/Adam or Eve/Eve relations are divine as well, besides the fact that they cannot reproduce, I do not dissapprove these realtionships. The freedom to choose stands very firm with me.
 
From my belief; Adam and Eve were god, it follows that we people are all gods, I call this movement homotheism.
 
human is god
god is human
 
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oidipiet

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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/09 23:58:51 (permalink)
    an interesting idea.  now the vatican says male priests are Jesus. and women can never be Jesus because they are not male.  so in effect the vatican is all ready calling men, and only men, and not women, a god, a divinity, Jesus.
     
    adam and eve are images of God, both created in image of God, be fruitful and multiply and it is good.
     
    are then adam and eve both gods? 
     
     i do not see it that way really.  however, the vatican claims male priests are Jesus and women can never be that on account of women being a woman.  to me, that does not make sense because the bible says both woman and man are both made in image of God.
     
    now I find it wrong that the vatican claims male priests are a god, are Jesus. 
     
     I  think as Jesus tells us in the new testament, that the priest is to serve God and not be God.
     
    Jesus refers to it as humble servant of God, again not God, but servant , servant of God. I think this is a really big difference.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 00:09:53 (permalink)
    Is the Pope  by calling the male priest Jesus, has he created a new religion, homotheism?   Males are God to Pope Benedict XVI.  The Pope says no woman can be that. .
     
    The Pope says no woman can be a priest, can be Jesus, can be God.    So in effect the Pope is proposing homotheism, male priests are Gods, are Jesus to the Pope.
     
    I never heard it expressed so clearly till you suggested the term for what the Pope is doing. 
     
     Now Jesus instead calls the priest a SERVANT of God, NOT God, NOT homotheism. 
     
    The Pope calls the priest Jesus , a god, and promotes homotheism really and I think that is wrong. 
     
     Another reason why we need women as priests too to end these wrong notions of the Pope.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 00:18:54 (permalink)
    Women as priests and deacons really would help put an END to the Pope's wrong doctrines and procedures , his Homotheistic ideas of the male priest is God, is Jesus.
     
    Women as deacons and priests is all about Servant of God, and not being God. Jesus tells us the role is Servant of God, humble Servant of God.
     
    The Pope saying Men only are God, and male priests only are Jesus is Homotheism, and it is not right,
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 00:23:19 (permalink)

    From my belief; Adam and Eve were god, it follows that we people are all gods, I call this movement homotheism.

    human is god
    god is human

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    oidipiet

    I am astounded that anyone in the 21st century would embrace such a miniscule concept of reality in the face of the observable universe.
     
    woman who votes with feet
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 00:27:40 (permalink)
    The Pope is a big fan of theologian Hans Von Balthasar who promotes homoerotic idea that the male priest has orgiastic outpouring from his "fruitful organ" during Eucharist.
     
    This is actually in the writings of this theologian and Benedict XVI really admires this theologian.
     
    For this reason, that only males have this organ, only males can be priest.  That is the argument they use!  It is Homotheism just like you call it.
     
    It is entirely wrong I think to claim Eucharist is the  male orgasm of the male priest.  It is spiritual nourishment , bread and wine of Jesus and not anything to do with male orgasm.  Von Balthasar is wrong.  Jesus calls the priest a servant of God , not a god and not an orgasm.  The Eucharist is not about orgasms ,  Christiianity is not Homotheism.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 00:35:36 (permalink)
    God is transcendant .  I do not think god is human or human is god.  I do not understand your line of reasoning whatsoever.  I do not get your ideas at all and I would certainly never call that notion a religion, as far as I am concerned.  It does seem that "homotheism" more accurately applies to what the Pope is doing by his calling male priests Jesus.
     
     That seems more like what any "homotheism" is when the Pope says male priests are God, are Jesus.
     
     
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 00:43:41 (permalink)
    Good grief!  Catholicism is clear that God is not actually we men and women .  We are created by God and not God.  That is what I think.  We are made in the image of God.  There is a big difference in that humans are not actually Gods themselves really.  That is why ideas that make male priests some kind of god or Jesus are wrong as far as I can see.  That is why we need the balance, good sense and presence too of women as ordained in the Catholic church, not just men as priests.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 04:23:08 (permalink)
    You say god is human and human is god.  Hmmmm.  seems like you are describing atheism.  Is that really atheism?  This web forum is about Catholicism.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 04:41:13 (permalink)
    Why call it ""Womenchurch""? 
     
      It is Catholic Church.  
     
     Asking for women as well as men as ordained  as deacons, priests.
     
     It is about both men and women as being ordained.  It is about men too. 
     
    Why divide us up?
     
      Womenpriests make sense for this forum only because this forum is asking for women to be included as ordained.
     
    This forum is not asking for a separate church called  ""womenchurch""
     
     instead it asks for  a Catholic Church of both men and women as ordained. 
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 06:21:30 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Guest

    You say god is human and human is god.  Hmmmm.  seems like you are describing atheism.  Is that really atheism?  This web forum is about Catholicism.

     
    This is true. If every fallible, mortal human were God then there would be no God.
     
    God is neither male nor female. God is not a masculine Spirit.
     
    God is Love. Love is not specific to any gender nor does it have characteristics of one particular gender.
     
    Our Church leaders are in grave error in proclaiming God as a “masculine Spirit.” Such proclamations diminish the magnificence of the true nature of God.
     
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/10 14:17:28 (permalink)
    Maybe what you are really getting at is that both women and men are Daughters and Sons of God. 
     
     St. Peter calls us that and so does Jesus and St. Paul.  We are Daughters and Sons of God.
     
    Jesus is Son of God and divine.   Jesus is divine.  The Trinity is Jesus, God, Holy Spirit.  
     
    I do not like the term 'womenchurch' .  Instead it is Roman Catholic Church, for all , for men and women and children, for all.
     
     
     
     
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/11 12:17:26 (permalink)
    The secret who/what/where god is, lies in humans itself. Adam and Eve were god, so we are all sons and daughters of god. This leads to the conclusion that humans must be devine.
     
    I agree that there are differences between being god and being servant of god, it is who you put first, either yourself or god. I do want to note that the believe is: Adam and Eve were god, so both I (as Adam) and my partner (as Eve) are now (re-)living together as god. I put her first, she puts me first. We serve each other. Together we sit on the trone.
     
    For a women'church' it would probably be better if a woman (Jesua) would had stand up and had said: God is my mother, and I am the daugther of God. Maybe then things would turn around for women. But wouldn't that be a real split up between men and women? I suggest then that the bible is first rewritten in terms of She, Her Holiness, Holy Mother, Jesua and her apostels, etc, etc. Maybe then, a real (christian) womenchurch would emerge.
     
    But, it is my strong believe that men and women are better of with the believe that Adam and Eve were god than with the believe that Jesua or Jesus was god.
     
    oidipiet
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/11 12:24:20 (permalink)
    For a women'church' it would probably be better if a woman (Jesua) would had stand up and had said: God is my mother, and I am the daugther of God. Maybe then things would turn around for women. But wouldn't that be a real split up between men and women? I suggest then that the bible is first rewritten in terms of She, Her Holiness, Holy Mother, Jesua and her apostels, etc, etc. Maybe then, a real (christian) womenchurch would emerge.

     
    Dear Oidipiet,
     
    I think it would be better, instead of a 'womanchurch' to have a people church = one in which women and men are equals and neither dominates the other.  This to me would be a real Christian Church.  We are all sons and daughters of God and we are called to relate to each other in Love!
     
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/11 13:13:24 (permalink)
    A people church would be best, and in time that should happen.
     
    But, since we live in a time where women aren't allowed to have an opinion in any religion, I thought it would be best to first pronounce a womenchurch.
    I admit that I pulled to the left, because I am upset with the injustice and inequality between men and women that exist in the modern world. Just because Jesus was a man and he said god was his father. And look at the consequences, a scary little menworld that incites others to the most extreme things. I do not want that to happen, that's why I have based the womencurch on the believe that Adam and Eve were god.
     
    In time, I do hope that term womenchurch would become unnecessary, and that it would be called just church.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/11 15:32:00 (permalink)
    We are ONE in Christ.  Neither male or female dominate.  Jesus felt empathy and love for us.  He loved women too and helped them and included women fully to the shock and amazement of his time and so in our own time too. 
     
    Church of all people, women, men and children, for all.  Jesus invites mothers and children too, no exclusions, and women and men too.
     
    It is not about gender, it is about inclusion and love and mercy, compassion and justice.  Jesus and all people have male and female chariacteristics and both male and female hormones are in all of us.  I as wife, and mother and woman have this too.  God planned us to be one even hormonally and to connect fully to each other.  We are one race the human race as you say.  This gives us hope of all being redeemed in God's love.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/11 21:03:06 (permalink)
    In time, I do hope that term womenchurch would become unnecessary, and that it would be called just church.

     
    This would be a time when we in the Church are truly equal in Christ. 
     
    Isn't this what baptism is already supposed to do?  make us equal in Christ.  Apparently, the Vatican may sometimes say that in words but not in attitudes and practice.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2008/10/18 14:18:54 (permalink)
    These are 20 poems written by Poemerd (a.k.a. Oidipiet) that may inspire others to think of the important things in life, such as love, friendship, environment, health, etc, etc.
     
    on the planes of need   
    ---------------------
     
    traveling without wings
    trying to reach the sun

    growing up from the same roots
    touching your hips for fun

    running without boots
    on a field of bare feet

    inhaling
    some bottles
    and a dirty string

    a dark silence
    and the rythem of our heartbeat within

    telephatically flying through space
    feeling that you're alive
    seeing your pretty face
    knowing that you're my wife
    to be in love with you
    just living a normal life
    and to have something that is true

    like we could walk on water
    or feed diamonds to the poor

    maybe we didn't look that great
    or we should be doing something else

    sometimes you're already too late
    as things happen before you know it

    maybe we should climb the highest mountain
    and tell our stiry to a million strangers

    like autism
    listening to music
    just looking the other way

    getting up in the mourning
    hearing your lyrics every day

    while staying awake trhough the night
    haveing dreams of you inside
    spending some quality time together
    but still living in seperate worlds

    thinking of tomorrow
    like something that would matter
    just being there with you forever
    like nothing really hurts
    and anything still has a meaning

    like no one loves you better
    and I should still be youur friend
    or someone may write a letter
    and tell you that he will love you
    until the very, very end

     
    bill of faith
    -------------

    guns and rights
    take a vote
    don't start a fight

    control your will
    the river runs
    a bill to quote
    from a stranger

    don't kill
    but take a note
    god will
    determine your road

    for she as he
    is within
    to judge you
    with the truth

    every right
    every sin

    the direction to go
    the power within

    faith is an unforseen fact
    to believe in the truth
    is to believe in you

    for I am real
    and you are true

     
    the game
    --------

    once you've done it
    you're addicted
    once you're in
    you don't want out
    the best feeling
    on top of the world
    love it
    take it
    it can make you rich
    it can make you poor
    it's fun
    it's exciting
    it's more than you can handle
    it's never ending
    it takes controle over you
    it makes you smart
    it makes you strong
    everbody wants to win
    nobody wants to lose
    it's always there
    it's here
    between me and you
    it goes on and on
    until you die
    and after that
    the next generation
    smarter and stronger
    than you and I
    the game
    just play it
    don't ask questions why

     
    Don't (1)
    ---------

    When you are in love,
    don't use someone else.
    When you are alone,
    don't drink alcohol at home.
    When you are in pain,
    don't wait for it to go away.
    When you are poor,
    don't be a whore.
    When you are rich,
    don't be a bitch.
    When you are angry,
    don't take it out on others.
    When you are straight,
    don't be affraid.
    When you are down,
    don't use drugs.
    When you are wrong,
    don't try to be right.
    When you are scared,
    don't start a fight.
    When you are sad,
    don't lose your head.
    When you are true,
    don't lie about me and you.

     
    Don't (2)
    ---------

    When you are in love,
    don't use somebody else.
    When you are mad,
    don't lose your head.
    When you are alone,
    don't drink alcohol at home.
    When you are poor,
    don't be a whore.
    When you are in pain,
    don't wait for it to go away.
    When you are happy,
    don't use drugs.
    When you are angry,
    don't hurt your friends
    When you are borred,
    don't do porn.
    When you are affraid,
    don't look the other way,
    When you are wrong,
    don't try to be right.
    When you are sad,
    don't start a fight.
    When you are true
    don't lie about me and you.

     
    Don't (3)
    ---------

    Don't be bad
    don't make people mad
    Don't be affraid
    don't do hate
    Don't be sad
    don't lose your head
    Don't be hard
    don't forget about your heart

     
    too much to ask
    ---------------

    you used to be my girlfriend
    you used to be my childish dream
    you used to be the one a ran to
    but now I can only see
    wishing that you were here with me
    is that too much to ask?
    we used to have good friendship
    but now I can only see

    hoping that you would be there for me
    is that too much to ask?
    we used to be distant lovers
    but now I can only see
    you used to be my girlfriend
    you used to be my childish dream
    you used to be the one a ran to
    but now I can only see
    crying that you should be here with me
    is that so much to ask?

     
    Really?
    -------

    Do you believe in me and you?
    Should I share my dreams with you?
    Can love be truely free?
    Could you really care for me?
    May I ask you for tonight?
    Should we make love and have a fight?
    Do you really know my heart?
    Are we lovers or do we part?
    Would you like to be my wife?
    Do you want to be in my life?
    What is truth and what is faith?
    Are you for real or should you be paid?

     
    Nobody is perfect
    -----------------

    In search of nothing,
    never means a thing.

    When something goes nowhere
    and anything may happen.

    Where is that something
    and why does it disappear?

    How in god's name can that be
    and who makes you believe?

    Nobody is perfect
    and no one really will be.

     
    to the bone
    -----------

    like no one before
    I want you more
    like nothing really matters
    I love you better
    I love you more
    you are my lover
    we go until the end
    we are hardcore
    forever friends
    together
    until the very, very end

     
    for a little while
    ------------------

    dreaming of a field of joy
    just two, a girl and a boy
    living in a garden of dreams
    without any fear so it seams
    but before you know it
    you'll see evil
    and you'll have to trust your spirit
    to defeat the devil
    inside of you
    the last thing standing is the truth
    between me and you
    for what we have
    is so very,very true
    even if it hurts
    you got to love it or leave it alone
    we are free like birds
    made out of flesh and bone
    with emotions and feelings
    crying a river
    living on love potions and dancing on sealings
    you make me shiver
    you make me smile
    for when I'm with you
    I'm in paradise
    without any devil
    for a little while

     
    to love someone special
    -----------------------

    to love you
    is to hold you
    like nothing meets the rain

    to love you
    is to need you
    like anything has no name

    to love you
    is to feed you
    like something that is true

    to love you
    is to believe you
    like that someone special
    who would never hurt your feelings
    and would always be the same
    too

     
    like we have a dream
    --------------------

    like we have a dream
    or how that may seem
    like we would be stars
    no matter how far

    like we could walk a million miles
    and travel past a thousand islands
    like we could sing a thousand songs
    and think of a million wrongs

    like so very real
    and so very true
    living with faith
    just being together
    together with you

    like always and forever
    sharing our passions
    and enjoying our life
    never saying never
    making a lot of love
    and just being alive

    while being in sight of you
    and still seeing what is really true
    like we could be perfect lovers
    and one day
    have a nice family too

    like we should become one
    and just have a lot of fun
    like we may touch the sky
    or travel to the sun
    like together forever
    just always
    you and i

    and no matter where we are
    we would always be together
    we would never really be apart
    we would be in love forever
    because you are for always in my heart

     
    prom night feeling
    ------------------

    prom night feelings
    sweet gestures
    and deep desires

    holy secrets
    strong medicin
    and nature's call

    do you know that meaning
    and are you there for real
    can we find forever
    or should we make a deal

    heavy topics
    behind a concrete wall
    seeds growing
    and a furtile ground

    studying on business
    taking away my life

    you should be my mistress
    and she should be my wife

     
    like making sense
    -----------------

    like the bachelor
    and the nice guy from the store
    or maybe more like hapiness
    and the prosperity of the poor

    like
    where do we go
    and how does it show

    sensing still
    relaxing more
    just being real
    seeing how you must feel

    like
    what is really fair
    and why should we care

    hearing of people in pain
    kwoning their suffering
    slowly going insane

    without any cure
    or not even a trial

    there can't be any hope
    or a way to find peace
    there won't be any faith
    and it will be hard to relief

    like victims of war
    walking for miles
    being terminally ill
    living in trauma
    not knowing how they must feel

    like strangers dying in the streets
    or patients just trying to be happy
    maybe with a placebo
    or perhaps by taking on a new project

    Like medicin growing on trees
    and drugs being developed from seeds
    looking to improve life
    and slowing down a terrible disease

    to really make the world a better place
    help those that are in need
    solving problems
    and taking away any type of greed

    by sharing a commen wealth
    and having similar worries about other people's health

    we should use our education to benefit us all
    we should be saving the environment
    and protect animals from dying out
    we should make clean energy
    and have traffic that hardly makes a sound
    we should threat everybody equal
    and have the same chances on prosperity and work
    we should be making friends
    not enemies or war

    we should make sure that we will never lose our faith
    as without the force of nature
    we will always be too late

     
    west city falls
    ---------------

    snowy winds
    blushes on your cheek

    some very cold sand
    melting ice on my skin

    high mountains
    and pretty small towns of sin

    a clean village
    clouds floating
    a silent sound wispers

    to know that meaning
    just to understand a feeling

    like horses may trot us by
    or we might swim with seals

    without any birds in the sky
    empty
    like loneliness feels
    i see you leaving
    without even saying goodbye

     
    time to quit
    ------------

    time to quit
    just no more shit
    time to leave
    just needing to relief

    time to forget
    just having regrets
    time to move on
    just being strong

    time to say goodbye
    not even able to live a lie
    time to break up
    just really wanting to stop

    time to face to facts
    just not having any respect
    time to get real
    it's just not my kind of deal

     
    Every day life
    --------------

    Every day
    everytime
    each moment in time.

    You have the possibility to change your life.
    In the morning
    when you go out to work.
    In the afternoon
    when you have lunch.
    In the evening
    when you do your groceries.
    In the night
    when you go to sleep.

    You can always decide to turn it all around.
    You found that your decisions make your path in life.
    You found that your anger fuels your ideas.
    You found that your love controles your succes.

    While you're thinking that you could change.
    While you're saying that you could do things better.
    While you're seeing that you could make a difference.

    You continue to be you.
    As you go through life
    and you are faced with growing up.
    As you live through a year
    and see questions unanswered.
    As you become older
    and give answers to questions.
    As you are one of a kind
    and you experience specific needs.
    As you have only one body
    and find things that are nice.

    You more and more become you.
    Since you were using
    since you were playing
    since you got used
    since you got played.

    You became part of a system.
    You finally started to see,
    that
    your life
    is in your hands.

    And that makes you
    as human
    as you possibly can be.

    Living your life
    for everybody to see.

     
    One plus seventhousand
    ----------------------

    Like one plus seventhousand is poetic justice
    and emotions should be legal practice.
    Like two plus one would be nothing and all
    and our feelings would just be jokes for the mall.
    Like forever we could be together
    and we never break or fall.
    Like we should do anything,
    or at least something,
    but just not nothing at all.

     
    why did we lose her hearth
    --------------------------

    thinking about that driedout rose on the wall
    seeing an empty glass before we all fall

    stream of water running in our kitchen
    screaming of children from upstairs

    a run through the forrest
    like in the world of wizards and witches

    the mirror that loves you
    even when you are really alone
    just alone
    completely on your own

    a silent loneliness falls
    that wants to kill you
    or that terrible present you did not want to have
    on your own
    just alone
    on your own

    the darkness in the room
    no lights on in the kitchen

    a small wake up call as a car passes us by
    three sips of a cigaret
    and we still ask ourselves why

    why o why
    why did she had to go away
    why could she not just stay

    stay with us
    like we all wanted her to stay
    and we all could still go our own seperate way

    whishing on stars
    we can only hope that we will find our own way
    our own little small way for her to stay
    to stay with us
    like nothing happend before that terrible loss
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2009/05/12 07:49:37 (permalink)
    I think it would be better, instead of a 'womanchurch' to have a people church = one in which women and men are equals and neither dominates the other.  This to me would be a real Christian Church.  We are all sons and daughters of God and we are called to relate to each other in Love!


    How beautiful to know that we trully have this in the Catholic Church!  I have found an analogy that I just love ...

    The man is the head of the household, the woman is the heart; they balance each other and support each other; keeping each other from straying, and create a place that both can call Home.
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    RE: womenchurch and the rise of homotheism 2009/05/12 09:51:07 (permalink)
    Jesus does not refer to himself as head of the church.  This is a term used by Titus, Timothy, Paul and not Jesus.
     
    Instead Jesus defers to God as supreme, tells us to ask of God, says he is our servant, and the servant of God and in examples, serves the apostles, washes their feet and serves, helps the people.  Jesus instructs us all must be humble servants of one another, no one is to lord it over anyone.
     
    The notion of male supremacy over women, "headship" is really damaging and inauthentic to the teachings, words and actions of Jesus.
     
    Humble service, equality, respect each other, love each other, no one is to lord it over anyone, is the true Christian way.  Jesus has been misinterpreted and the teachings twisted to put women in an inferior harmful place not of Jesus's direction at all.  In the book section, an excellent book shows how Paul's words have been misconstrued and how there instead is a clarion call for equality, not "headship" of men.
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