Women Can Be Priests
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Can women be icons of Christ?

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Guest
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2007/05/01 17:13:56 (permalink)
  Why does the Vatican cling to temporal power, rejecting women from ordination and doctrinal contribution.?  Greed, mysoginy, intolerance of women.   Ancient prejudices of "inferior, tainted, unworthy women" yet Jesus did not hold these anti-women, unclean women views.  He cured the 12 year hemorraging woman with no condemnation--yet she was "unclean" to others, not Jesus.  He told the astonished male disciples a much married, living with boyfriend Samaritan woman was now doing "the work and will of God, reaping the harvest while they did nothing."   Jesus completely endorses women to do his ministry and that women are absolutely worthy. He considers them new Eves, washed clean  in his living waters of faith,  see  John 4  and see what Paul says about how we become washed clean and sanctified through the love of Jesus.  Jesus created a NEW religion for us not the same one as before but one of love your neighbour, do not exclude the abandoned, the ophaned, the marginalized- invite them to dinner, love them, value them, include them.  Jesus has been instructed by God to create a new religion which is inclusive of women and lets women do all his  ministry including being fully functioning Apostles, disciples and doing all duties we nowadays call priesthood.  Jesus saved the adultress from stoning yet our church deliberately tortured and murdered a million women in the Inquisition. How is that like being like Jesus? Ordain women and be like  Jesus.    
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2007/05/02 21:56:49 (permalink)
  The Vatican sure gets it wrong when they keep on saying there are only 12 Apostles or Disciples.
 
   Not so.  Jesus chose more than 12 because he chose Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Susanna and later Junia and Paul.
 
    Why?  Because Jesus came for more than the 12 tribes of Israel.  Jesus came for the Gentiles, including Samaria.
 
     What is the second awe inspiring part to Jesus choosing more than 12 Apostles is Jesus chose Women too.  
                                                                                                                   God bless from Connie
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2007/05/02 22:05:42 (permalink)
keep spreading the word!
Sophie
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/01/06 17:31:59 (permalink)
 
http://catholicgeek.blogspot.com/2007/01/feast-of-epiphany-crossing-abyss.html

Epiphany

"We can imagine the awe which the Magi experienced before he Child in swaddling clothes. Only faith enabled them to recognize in the face of that Child the King whom they were seeking, the God to whom the star had guided them.

In him, crossing the abyss between the finite and the infinite, the visible and the invisible, the Eternal entered time, the Mystery became known by entrusting himself to us in the frail body of a small child. 'The Magi are filled with awe by what they see; heaven on earth and earth in heaven; man in God and God in man; they see enclosed in a tiny body the One whom the entire world cannot contain' (St. Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 160, n. 2)."

---Pope Benedict XVI, World Youth Day 2005, Address at the Papal Welcoming Ceremony on the Poller Rheinwiesen bank in Cologne, August 18, 2005.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Dear friends,

Pope Benedict reminds us that the Magi recognised Jesus in the face of the baby in the manger.  One of Rome's arguments against women priests is that women do not bear an iconic resemblance to Christ.  Do you agree? 

Epiphany: The manifestation of Christ to the Gentiles. It's message is that Christ is for all, regardless of gender, colour, social status, educational qualifications, or monetary position.  The only qualifications to allow Christ to enter are humility and love.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
post edited by Sophie - 2008/01/07 02:27:46
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/01/07 05:17:53 (permalink)
Only faith enabled them to recognize in the face of that Child the King whom they were seeking, the God ...in the frail body of a small child.



 
Yes Pope Benedict.  I think you have got that right.  I encourage you. Please reflect.  From a woman concerned for our Church.
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/01/07 09:50:17 (permalink)
Yes, Jesus teaches us we are all Children of God, all equal Daughters and Sons of God, women too not just men.  We are NOT "Brides of Christ".  We as church are Children of God, Beloved of God. We are to become like children welcomed warmly, unconditionally loved by Jesus and God whether blind or child or woman or man, married or single or an anbandoned person like the adultress or woman of the city or paralyzed man at the special healing pool.  Jesus does not shun or exclude or belittle any one.
  Only Blessed Mary, Mother of Jesus , is the Bride of Christ,  Pope Benedict needs to realize how calling the Laity "Brides" is a very wrong term for the Church.  Recognize the Dignity and Vocation of Women too, who also are equally daughters of God, just as men are Sons of God, no discrimination or bigotry comes from Jesus .  Ordain women.
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/04/23 04:23:47 (permalink)
Can men who discriminate against women be icons of Christ?
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/05/02 15:18:26 (permalink)
If as a human being -- woman that I am -- I am an icon of Christ, how is it that the Vatican can argue that I do not bear an iconic resemblance to Christ?
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/09 17:14:23 (permalink)
Hi -
 
I've been lurking on your forum and exploring the site for months--probably goes back years! I appreciate the debates here, as well as Sophie's posts and links.
 
I believe that women do image Christ, and can be priests, but fear that the Church will never allow it because it would dismantle most everything the Church says about gender and sex roles. If they open this door, they will never shut it. De-emphasizing gender and allowing woman's humanity to be the central focus would undermine the Church's view of proper male-female relations, sex roles, and the status of heterosexual marriage as well. And let's face it--they can't and won't go there, even though the Anglican Church has.
 
kitty
 
 
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/09 18:48:13 (permalink)
You make a good point that I have never thought about before.

Probably the same kind of situation the Vatican was in when Galileo dropped the bombshell that the earth was not the centre of the universe?
So they put him under lock and key so that their whole house of cards wouldn't come tumbling down.

The Vatican got over it eventually and now they are putting up a monument to Galileo in St. Peter's Square.

Who knows. Maybe one day there will be a monument put up by them of Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza or John Wijngaards or someone of the like. Someone who worked to bring an end to the sin of discrimination and sexism in the Church. Wish I could live long enough to see the day. I am counting on being one of the saints cheering on from the sidelines by then!
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/09 18:58:22 (permalink)
I believe that women do image Christ, and can be priests, but fear that the Church will never allow it because it would dismantle most everything the Church says about gender and sex roles. If they open this door, they will never shut it. De-emphasizing gender and allowing woman's humanity to be the central focus would undermine the Church's view of proper male-female relations, sex roles, and the status of heterosexual marriage as well. And let's face it--they can't and won't go there


Just as Christ foresaw:

Jesus said [to Peter], "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."

John 21: 17-18


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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/09 19:10:27 (permalink)
What a day that would be!
 
The Church's teachings on what it means to be male or female are so distorted IMHO. It's the same distortion all the way through, whether they're talking about marriage or "feminine genius" (define, please) or the inability of women to image Christ. Remove one card and the whole house collapses.
 
 
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 02:21:26 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

What a day that would be! 

  "feminine genius" (define, please). 


 
One wonders how anyone could buy this nonsense. What is feminine genius really? It is nothing but an invention of JPII to placate the discontented female populace. Try and flatter them with words like “genius” into accepting an artificial definition of what it means to be female.
 
Why stop at feminine genius? Let’s define Black genius or Asian genius or Irish genius or Polish genius or Jewish genius or Protestant genius or Hindu genius, etc. Well you get the picture. It’s nothing more than stereotyping.     
 
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 07:24:30 (permalink)
feminine genius = 'women who know what's good for them will stroke our egos and quietly endure'
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 07:40:52 (permalink)
I don't like the concept of 'feminine genius.'  It is a sly manoever.  Also, on face value, it implies that somehow women are 'smarter' than men.  Instead of lifting both women and men up, it infantilizes men, suggests to them that women are smarter than them, and reinforces the notion that women need to be kept in their places since if you let them out, they are bound to take over everything.
 
It would be great to hear the Vatican actually spoke to something that espouses the equality of women and men instead of trying to keep a fire going about a battle between the sexes.
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 13:01:48 (permalink)
Yes, I agree that "feminine genius" is placating/patronizing--and as you say, why stop there. Imagine the stir "Black genius" would cause.
 
Here's an interesting thing to consider--what is the more powerful question: "How have I imaged Christ today?" or "How have I fulfilled my Catholic sex role today?"
 
Food for thot.
 
BTW, the discussion on iconography here has been very enjoyable. My roots are in both in the RC and Greek Orthodox faith and many important ideas about icon painting have been communicated. Notice how men and women are sometimes indistinguishable in icons because of the stylistic conventions.
 
So nice to be here!
 
Kitty
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 13:42:22 (permalink)
So nice to have you here!
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 13:48:09 (permalink)
Kitty,
 
I am from the Ukrainian Catholic rite.
 
When the Vatican says that women do not bear an iconic resemblance to Christ, I find it hurtful. 
 
Of course I bear an iconic resemblance to Christ.  They ought to take a remedial course to learn exactly what icons are.  Mother Theresa understood it when she said that she saw Christ in the face of every person she met.
 
Pope Benedict alludes to it sometimes but I think for all the reasons that you outlined in your post awhile ago (if they admit women to priesthood, they are afraid their house of cards will come tumbling down) they just can't bear to face the truth about this when it comes to women in the Church.
 
Maybe they love the feminine but they can't hack being near it when it is the feminine embodied in a living woman's body.
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 13:53:52 (permalink)
Dear men in the Vatican: Why can't women serve as the outward and visible signs  of an inward and spiritual grace?  We are after all icons of Christ.
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RE: Can women be icons of Christ? 2008/06/10 17:33:55 (permalink)
Rejecting the obvious--that men and women can image Christ--forces them into a Christian anthropology that is as outdated as an earth-centred cosmology, and has already been shown to be as such. The Vatican seems so caught up as well with the idea that the church must resist the forces of secular society without seeing that secular society does itself (at times) image Christ. Materialism is one thing. Secular society is another. My daughter attends a wonderful public school right now, and I can honestly say that "Do unto others" is the backbone of this multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-family-type school. I see that it is the Pope's first rule too.
 
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