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Sophie
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/13 14:57:57 (permalink)
 
 
 
 
6.    And in his On Causa 33, quaestio 5, chapter 13, Huguccio opines: Woman wears a veil as a sign of subjection:
“A man does not need to cover his head. When he prays he does not need to carry a sign of subjection as if he were not free before God, that is as if he were not subject to him without any intermediate being.”

Source: Ida Raming, The Exclusion of Women from the Priesthood, Scarecrow Press, Metuchen 1976, pp. 61-64.

http://www.womenpriests.org/theology/huguccio.asp 
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/13 17:00:55 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Guest

ORIGINAL: Sophie

 But women have no part in the order of the priesthood, nor can they have it.” 
 



Why do we remain slaves to the ignorance of the past?



I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything.


Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., address in Memphis the night before Dr. King's assassination
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/13 22:08:55 (permalink)

I hope will become clear the fact that during the Middle Ages, members of the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic theologians weren't the only men of faith equipped with extraordinarily dim views of women.

I hope it might also raise the question: are members and philosophers of any religious hierarchy deemed to be "men of faith" simply by virtue of their positions?
While being a member or philosopher of a religious hierarchy might establish certain individuals as having power and influence over others, their positions do not necessarily establish them to be "men of faith" at all.  Those most occupied with having power and influence over others in the world are often those who exhibit the least faith by their words and deeds.
 
woman who votes with feet
 
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 00:37:56 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Sophie


Dear friend,

That is a very good question.  I believe that many people simply lack information or have acted on innocent reliance on what they have been told.  Be assured we are doing our parts to undo the ignorance.  We appreciate your support for it is quite a task.

In a recent article I read written by a woman who defends the Vatican's exclusion of women from priesthood, she used the words, "Of course we know they have always had our best interests at heart."  I haven't yet had the time to write to her with 'information' and encouragement to read some of the records.

Not everyone will change her or his mind.  For my own part, once I learned about our history, I could not rest.  I am grateful for the www.womenpriests.org website.  The work of the Team helped me to become more informed.  I now feel compelled to help educate people about where we have come from.  It is my hope that that once more of us become better informed about the truth of our history -- once more of us see things in the light -- we will create the critical mass needed for change.  I am learning from other avenues of science that critical for mass needed for change is not as big as I once thought it was.  There are good reasons to have hope.  Collectively, we can bring about transformation.  Considering the size and influence of our Church, the transformation that takes place in it will most certainly become gift for women in the world.

What are your thoughts about this?  I'd love to hear them.  As I work on this thread, some of it seems like I am spreading such gloom and doom...yet these facts are part of our community journey... and most of us don't know it.  It is time to shine light on the dark corners and sweep out the crud.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~ 

 
Dear Sophie,
 
My question deals more with the fact that humanity has made such advances in our understanding of science and technology. We have advanced communication systems and educational systems to disseminate information so there is no excuse for this ignorance.
 
And yet we have people who believe that the world was made in six days, that woman was made from the rib of a man, that woman was made to be subordinate to a man, that God is an old muscular man with a long grey beard, etc.
 
Why do people cling to their ignorance? Why don’t they seek the truth?
 
I believe that eventually the truth will prevail. I pray that just as the prophet Anna lived to see the Christ Child, I may live to see women ordained to the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church. Let’s hope we see it together.
 
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 01:36:39 (permalink)
 
 
Dear friend,

I wish -- for personal reasons included -- that I knew the answer to your question.  The unwillingness to move forward to truth -- the stubborn inclination to remain in ignorance -- that sometimes vicious attacks against those who speak truth -- these are perplexing features of human beings.

I wonder if some of it is wrapped up in fear of change?  in a need for certainty?  Admitting the need for change means having to come to terms with the fact that there is uncertainty in life? If any one among has some ideas, please do sing out. 

I share your hope that together we see the ordination of women, women Cardinals sitting together with men cardinals, women archbishops and someday, women as popes! Thanks for the reminder about the prophetess Anna.  Her story surely gives hope!

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~ 
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 01:38:51 (permalink)
 
'Anna the Prophetess'
by Louis Glanzman
http://www.louisglanzman.com/annatheprophetess.html 
 
Women of the New Testament 
 
Anna
Prophetess (first century)

"And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Panuel of the tribe of Asher; she was of a great age, having lived with her husband seven years from her virginity, and as a widow till she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day. And coming up at that very hour she gave thanks to God, and spoke of him to all who were looking for the redemption of Israel. "

- Luke 2:36-38

This short text is all that is recorded of the prophetess Anna, an old Woman who haunted the temple of Jerusalem awaiting some sign of Israel's Redeemer. Her long years of patient vigil were rewarded one day when Mary and Joseph brought their infant son to the temple for his ritual presentation to the Lord. Anna's story follows the longer account of Simeon, an old man who had been assured by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Messiah. When he saw the child Jesus accompanied by his parents, he blessed God and said, "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word; for mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared in the presence of all peoples."

Although no words are attributed to Anna, there is a similar sense of fulfillment in her story. Beyond Jesus' immediate family, she is the first woman to be granted such insight into' the divine mystery concealed in these humble beginnings. And she is the first to proclaim this good news to those like herself - poor and of no account - who lived by faith and waited in hope.
 
Text from Blessed Among All Women: Women Saints, Prophets, And Witnesses For Our Time by Robert Ellsberg (Paperback - April 25, 2007)
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 01:39:15 (permalink)
 
The Prophetess Anna
-Rembrandt
 
Anna had been widowed a long time, and living in the great temple of Jerusalem, fasting and praying. When Mary and Joseph brought the infant Jesus to the temple to be presented to the Lord, they were met by Simeon and Anna. Though the writer of the gospel did not record Anna's words, it is written that she "gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem", thus becoming the first Christian evangelist.
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 01:41:31 (permalink)
Dear friends,

From a practical point of view, work for women's ordination means labouring for cultural change.  There is strong resistance to the fact that God calls women to be Catholic priests.  Facing resistance is not an easy part of the journey. In my own experience, it has been helpful to learn about the dynamics of cultural change.  Recognising patterns has sometimes helped things seem a little less daunting. 

As the shift in human culture progresses, we know that two dynamics can be expected:

  • Conservative elements of society will resist change. In periods of disruption, conservative elements of society will seek to preserve dominant existing views by fiercely resisting the emerging change. Many examples of such resistance exist, e.g., the woman's rights movement, the ending of slavery, the Copernican revolution, quantum mechanics, Darwinian evolution, global climate change, etc. Resistance can delay the inevitable shift, but will not prevent it once enough people have experienced its benefits.
  • Times will seem chaotic and random.  This is a sign that the system is undergoing a transformation to a more elegant and sophisticated form. The polarization and conflict accompanying such a shift can be disquieting, confusing. Problems may seem to overpower solutions. That is because, in social systems, old ways of doing things, old paradigms and worldviews are becoming inadequate, and are no longer addressing current situations. The hopeful part rests in knowing that these are signs that something new and better is trying to emerge.
If you are interested in learning about this, we do have several articles in our thread, The Dynamics of Change

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~  
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 01:44:28 (permalink)
Dear friends,

Where do we fall in?  The late Dr. Everett Rogers, in his seminal work on the Diffusion of Innovations, refined understanding by identifying five categories of responders or adopters in the process of change.  The dominant characteristics of each of the five types, in their order of response is:

1. Innovators: initiate the response


  • Venturesome people, cosmopolitan, with broad experience
  • Likely to be well traveled and world-wise
  • Often have control of substantial financial resources, enabling them to take risks and survive inevitable failures
  • Find a rash, daring and risky lifestyle attractive

2. Early Adopters: modify and adopt the response


  • Respected by peers
  • Embody the successful, discrete use of new ideas
  • Have the greatest degree of opinion leadership
  • Relationships and influence tend to be local, based in and related to a smaller geographic or social system

3. Early Majority: cautious and sure


  • "Be not the first by which the new is tried, nor the last to lay the old aside" represents the attitude of this group
  • Deliberate
  • Interact frequently with peers, but seldom hold positions of opinion leadership
  • Represent approximately one third of the members of any social system

4. Late Majority: conservative


  • Skeptical of new ideas and innovation
  • Intolerant of uncertainty
  • Motivated by peer pressure and economic necessity
  • Also represent about one third of a social system

5. Laggards: the last to respond


  • Conservative traditionalists
  • Reference point is what worked in the past
  • Aware of a new idea long before adopting it
  • Must be absolutely sure that a new idea or innovation will not fail before they are willing to adopt it
  • Frequently occupy precarious economic positions, forcing them to be extremely cautious in adopting innovations

Learning about these underlying patterns has been both reassuring and illuminating.  While it might seem at times that the possibility of transformation is hopeless or that hostility against the agents of transformation  has been aimed at 'me,' this doesn't tell the whole story...especially in the Church.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 01:47:05 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest



I hope will become clear the fact that during the Middle Ages, members of the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic theologians weren't the only men of faith equipped with extraordinarily dim views of women.



I hope it might also raise the question: are members and philosophers of any religious hierarchy deemed to be "men of faith" simply by virtue of their positions?

While being a member or philosopher of a religious hierarchy might establish certain individuals as having power and influence over others, their positions do not necessarily establish them to be "men of faith" at all.  Those most occupied with having power and influence over others in the world are often those who exhibit the least faith by their words and deeds.

woman who votes with feet


 
Dear woman who votes with feet,
 
You make a very good point! Thank you.  It is good to hear your voice.
 
with love and blessings,
 
~Sophie~
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 02:41:13 (permalink)
Perhaps resistance to change is due to the fact that some people don’t want to think. Perhaps they choose to let the Church think for them.
 
I recently saw a T-shirt that had the following words
 
Think.
It’s not illegal yet.
 
It occurred to me that it is fortunate that we cannot read the minds of others, for then thinking would surely be illegal. Progress would be stopped at every opportunity.
 
In some ways our journey towards understanding God is like our scientific journey in understanding our universe. In scientific discovery we grow in our understanding of the world and the way things work. We learn from the past and build, challenge and refine what we know to find the truth. Our world does not change but our understanding of it does.
 
I think it is the same with God. As we progress as spiritual beings we grow in our understanding of God. We must build on the good from the past and reject that which we now know to be flawed. God has not changed but our understanding of God must change to enable us to move toward spiritual perfection.
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 02:49:38 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Sophie

On January 10 in 236 - Saint Fabian begins his reign as a Catholic Pope.
 
Fabian was pope, or bishop of Rome, from January 236 to January 20, 250 succeeding Pope Anterus.

Eusebius (Hist. Eccl. Vi. 29) relates how the Christians, having assembled in Rome to elect a new bishop, saw a dove alight upon the head of Fabian, a layman and stranger to the city, who was thus marked out for this dignity, and was at once proclaimed bishop by acclamation, although there were several famous men among the candidates for the vacant position.


Pope Saint Fabian

He is said to have baptized the emperor Philip and his son, to have done some building in the catacombs, to have improved the organization of the church in Rome, and to have appointed officials to register the deeds of the martyrs.

. . .
 
His deeds are thus described in the Liber Pontificalis: Hic regiones dividit diaconibus et fecit vii subdiacones, qui vii notariis imminerent, Ut gestas martyrum integro fideliter colligerent, et multas fabricas per cymiteria fieri praecepit. ("He divided these regions into deaconships and made seven sub-deaconships which seven secretaries oversaw, so that they brought together the deeds of the martyrs faithfully made whole, and he brought forth many works in the cemeteries.")

Although there is very little authentic information about Fabian, there is evidence that his episcopate was one of great importance in the history of the early church. He was highly esteemed by Cyprian, bishop of Carthage; Novatian refers to his nobilissima memoriae, and he corresponded with Origen. One authority refers to him as Flavian.

He is regarded as a saint, with a feast day of January 20.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Fabian




Dear friends,

Pope Fabian was a pope from the early Church.  Our library includes a segment from the Didascalia Apostolorum (also known simply as  Didascalia)  a Church writing from his time.

The Didascalia is a collection of pseudo-apostolic church laws.  Its originates in North Syria in the third century AD.

The Didascalia is a treatise which presents itself as being written by the Apostles at the time of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15,1-29.)  In reality, most modern scholars agree that it is a pastoral treatise composed in the third century. Translated into English, its title is "The Catholic Didascalia That is Teaching of the Twelve Holy Apostles and Disciples of Our Saviour." 

The original  version of the Didascalia was in Greek.  This can be to some extent restored by a comparison with the Apostolic Constitutions, the first eight books of which are simply a revised and enlarged edition of the Didascalia. In 1854, a Syriac version based on ancient manuscripts was published. In 1900, a Latin version -- perhaps of the fourth century --was discovered.  More than half of it had perished. Because Arabic and Ethiopian versions which have been found incorporate additional text deriving from the Apostolic Constitutions, they may not be a safe guide to the original text of the Didascalia itself.

In any event, the Didascalia is an interesting informative read when one takes note of its 'more friendly attitudes' towards women, ie more friendly than what we have currently been reading from the early part of the second millenium! The Didascalia, for instance, recognises the order of women deacons.  I will provide a bit more about the document and then share with you some flavour of it.  If you have any questions, please let me know.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
post edited by Sophie - 2009/01/14 03:10:04
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 02:59:20 (permalink)
Contents of the Didascalia
 
Originally written in Greek, the work appears to be based upon an original Jewish work intended for proselytes, transformed by extensive interpolations and slight alterations into a Christian document of great authority. The earlier Didache seems to have been an influence upon it too. The full title given in Syriac is: "Didascalia, that is, the doctrine of the twelve Apostles and the holy disciples of our Lord". The contents are the same as those of the corresponding books of the Apostolic Constitutions.
 
The place of composition was Roman Syria, though what part cannot be determined. The author was apparently a bishop, and presumably a Catholic. His book is badly put together, without logic, but not without some good sense. It never touches upon dogma but concerns itself entirely with practice. It has been called the earliest attempt to compile a Corpus iuris canonici (code of canon law).
 
The church officials are bishops, deacons, priests, widows (and orphans); deaconesses are also added, in one place rectors, and once subdeacons (these last may have been interpolated). This organization is behind that of Rome under Pope Cornelius in 251; hence Funk in 1891 placed the date of the work in the first half of the third century. But the whole Western system never spread to the East, and the development was uneven. Funk therefore withdrew this opinion in 1901, giving the second half of the century as the true date.
 
Especially noticeable is the treatment which bishops are ordered to give to penitents. Even great sinners, on repentance, are to be received with kindness, no sins are excepted. The canonical penance is to be of two to seven weeks. This legislation is obviously subsequent to Novatianism but is not so certainly aimed against it.
 
The heresies mentioned are those of Simon Magus and Cleobius (this name is given also by Hegesippus), with Gnostics and Ebionites. Against these Catholics must believe in the Trinity, the Scriptures and the Resurrection. The original Law of Moses is to be observed (see also Biblical law in Christianity), but not the Talmudic Second Law, Mishnah or Deuterosis, which was given to the Jews on account of the hardness of their hearts. The Old Testament is frequently quoted, and often at great length. The Gospel is cited by name, usually that of St. Matthew, the other evangelists less often, and that of St. John least of all, as it was traditionally held to have been written at a much later date than that which the Didascalia claims for itself. The Acts of the Apostles and nearly all the Epistles are freely employed, including the Epistle to the Hebrews, but the Apocalypse is not cited. None of these could be named. Harnack has gone quite wrong in arguing that the only place in which the Fourth Gospel is quoted formally as the Gospel is an interpolation, with the inference (at which he naturally expresses his surprise) that the author did not know or did not esteem that Gospel. (A quotation of the pericope de adulterâ, John 8, is important.) Harnack further holds that the gentle treatment of sinners is an interpolation intended against Novatianism, and that the deaconesses as well as the subdeacon are a later addition, He dates the original form in the first half of the third century, and the additions in the last quarter of it; but the reasons given are very weak. Achelis leaves the whole of the century open, but says that the later the work is placed in it, the better he feels he understands it.
 
The earliest mention of the work is by St. Epiphanius, who believed it to be Apostolic. He found it in use among the Audiani, Syrian heretics. The few extracts he gives do not quite tally with our present text; but then he is notoriously inexact in his quotations. Next we find the whole work incorporated into the Apostolic Constitutions, at the end of the fourth century, and soon afterwards it is quoted in the Pseudo-Chrysostom's Opus Imperfectum in Matthaeum. But the work never had a great vogue, and it was superseded by the Apostolic Constitutions.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didascalia_Apostolorum
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 03:03:25 (permalink)
From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

The Didiscalia by Kaufmann Kohler

Article Headings:

 Jewish Original.
 Book I.:
 Book II.:
 Origin of the Institution of Bishops.
 Episcopal Powers.
 The Good Shepherd.
 Jewish Courts of Justice.
 Divine Service.
 Work.
 Books III. and IV.:
 Widows "the Altar of God."
 Forbidden Charitable Gifts.
 Book V.:
 On Heresies.
 Book VI.:
 The "Didache" in an Older Form.
 Books VII. and VIII.:
 God of Our Fathers, etc.
 The Seven Benedictions.
 Prayers for Sabbath and Festivals.
 The Last Three Temple Benedictions.

A Greek work, in eight books, containing regulations of Church life, better known under the name of "Apostolic Constitutions," the full title being "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles [composed] by Clemens, Bishop and Citizen of Rome—Catholic Didascalia." Claiming to have been written by the Apostles, the work proves on closer examination to be based, like the Didache, upon an original Jewish work, transformed by extensive interpolations and slight alterations into a Christian document of great authority. There exists another version, bearing the name "Didascalia," in Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Arabic, and (incomplete) in Latin, which, since the appearance of Lagarde's edition of the Syriac "Didascalia" in 1854, most modern scholars consider to be the original work. On the other hand, Bickell ("Gesch. des Kirchenrechts," 1843, pp. 148-177) has given convincing proofs that the "Apostolic Constitutions" is the original work, and the so-called "Didascalia" a mere condensation. In the latter the Jewish elements are to a large extent eliminated, and the Christian character is more pronounced.

Jewish Original.

Only the first six books of the "Apostolic Constitutions," which correspond with the "Didascalia"—the latter consists of twenty-six chapters and is not divided into books—form the original work; the last two, which contain, besides a remodeled version of the "Didache," many liturgical pieces of very ancient character and indisputably of Jewish origin, are later additions, but seem to have belonged in part to the older Jewish original.

The work is of very great value to the student of Jewish and Church history, as it contains a large amount of haggadic and halakic material derived from unknown Jewish sources, and casts a flood of light upon Talmudic and New Testament literature. The original writer quotes the Scripture after the Septuagint version, and many apocryphal verses from unknown works; and, as will be shown farther on, he furnished to Paul and to other New Testament writers the source for many of their dicta. His style is fresh and vigorous, bearing striking resemblance to that of the "Didache." The Christian interpolator, on the other hand, is easily recognized by interruptions of the context, by ill-fitting New Testament references, and by occasional outbursts of Jew-hatred in glaring contrast to the Jewish spirit of the main work. The name "God" was frequently changed by copyists into "Christ," as was occasionally noticed by Lagarde; at times "Christ" is used for "Logos" (the Word).

The name "Didascalia" (given in the Preface and found in ii. 39, 55; vi. 14, 18; vii. 36) was borrowed from the Jewish original, the introductory sentence of which, greatly amplified in the "Apostolic Constitutions" and still more in the Syriac "Didascalia," seems to have read as follows:

"The plantation of God and His elect vineyard, those who believe in His unerring worship and hope to partake of His kingdom, sharing in His power and in the communion of His Holy Spirit . . . harken to His holy 'Instruction.' Take care, ye children of God, to do all things in obedience to God and to be agreeable in all things to the Lord our God. For if any man follow unrighteousness and act contrarily to the will of God, such a one will be regarded by God as a lawless heathen [ὡς παράνομον ἔθνος= ]."

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=343&letter=D
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 03:18:47 (permalink)
Dear friends,
 
The Didascalia is an interesting and informative read when one takes note of its 'more friendly attitudes' towards women, ie more friendly than what we have currently been reading from the early part of the second millenium! The Didascalia, for instance, speaks about the ordination of women deacons.  Women deacons are to work along side male deacons.  It suggests that rabbinical rules of uncleanness should be abandoned by Christians, and that the Holy Spirit remains with women during their monthly periods!
 
Please note that in providing this translation, Dr. Wijngaards used as his source: G. Homer, The Didascalia Apostolorum. The Syriac Version Translated, Oxford 1929.   Here goes:

What happened as we moved forward through time?!
 
with love and blessings,
 
~Sophie~
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 03:34:39 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

Perhaps resistance to change is due to the fact that some people don’t want to think. Perhaps they choose to let the Church think for them.

I recently saw a T-shirt that had the following words

Think.
It’s not illegal yet.

It occurred to me that it is fortunate that we cannot read the minds of others, for then thinking would surely be illegal. Progress would be stopped at every opportunity.

In some ways our journey towards understanding God is like our scientific journey in understanding our universe. In scientific discovery we grow in our understanding of the world and the way things work. We learn from the past and build, challenge and refine what we know to find the truth. Our world does not change but our understanding of it does.

I think it is the same with God. As we progress as spiritual beings we grow in our understanding of God. We must build on the good from the past and reject that which we now know to be flawed. God has not changed but our understanding of God must change to enable us to move toward spiritual perfection.


 
Dear friend,
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  I have been attempting to put together a post by way of response... but it is late here and my eyes are crossing! 
 
What you say connects so well with some of my recent reflections about the work I have been doing.  I will come back with a reply in the next day or two.  I look forward to continuing!
 
with love and blessings,
 
~Sophie~
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 05:23:18 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Sophie

ORIGINAL: Guest



I hope will become clear the fact that during the Middle Ages, members of the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic theologians weren't the only men of faith equipped with extraordinarily dim views of women.



I hope it might also raise the question: are members and philosophers of any religious hierarchy deemed to be "men of faith" simply by virtue of their positions?

While being a member or philosopher of a religious hierarchy might establish certain individuals as having power and influence over others, their positions do not necessarily establish them to be "men of faith" at all.  Those most occupied with having power and influence over others in the world are often those who exhibit the least faith by their words and deeds.

woman who votes with feet



Dear woman who votes with feet,

You make a very good point! Thank you.  It is good to hear your voice.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~

 
 
These features of church as a structure is reflecting the worst of society rather than representing the Reign of God. Men and power!
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 05:25:04 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

ORIGINAL: Sophie


Dear friend,

That is a very good question.  I believe that many people simply lack information or have acted on innocent reliance on what they have been told.  Be assured we are doing our parts to undo the ignorance.  We appreciate your support for it is quite a task.

In a recent article I read written by a woman who defends the Vatican's exclusion of women from priesthood, she used the words, "Of course we know they have always had our best interests at heart."  I haven't yet had the time to write to her with 'information' and encouragement to read some of the records.

Not everyone will change her or his mind.  For my own part, once I learned about our history, I could not rest.  I am grateful for the www.womenpriests.org website.  The work of the Team helped me to become more informed.  I now feel compelled to help educate people about where we have come from.  It is my hope that that once more of us become better informed about the truth of our history -- once more of us see things in the light -- we will create the critical mass needed for change.  I am learning from other avenues of science that critical for mass needed for change is not as big as I once thought it was.  There are good reasons to have hope.  Collectively, we can bring about transformation.  Considering the size and influence of our Church, the transformation that takes place in it will most certainly become gift for women in the world.

What are your thoughts about this?  I'd love to hear them.  As I work on this thread, some of it seems like I am spreading such gloom and doom...yet these facts are part of our community journey... and most of us don't know it.  It is time to shine light on the dark corners and sweep out the crud.

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~ 


Dear Sophie,

My question deals more with the fact that humanity has made such advances in our understanding of science and technology. We have advanced communication systems and educational systems to disseminate information so there is no excuse for this ignorance.

And yet we have people who believe that the world was made in six days, that woman was made from the rib of a man, that woman was made to be subordinate to a man, that God is an old muscular man with a long grey beard, etc.

Why do people cling to their ignorance? Why don’t they seek the truth?

I believe that eventually the truth will prevail. I pray that just as the prophet Anna lived to see the Christ Child, I may live to see women ordained to the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church. Let’s hope we see it together.


 
 
The apostle Paul’s concept of the “now and the not yet” helps me to negotiate life in the church. It helps me to have patience for that which is imperfect, while simultaneously having hope that Christ is redeeming his church -- including gender relationships.
Sophie
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 17:43:16 (permalink)
Dear friends,

The following article came across my desk today. It raised some questions in my mind as to whether or not there are similar patterns in discrimination against women. Any thoughts?

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Churches urged to be vigilant about racism as recession bites
By staff writers
Ekklesia
January 13, 2009

A Christian academic has warned churches that they will need to be extra vigilant against racism in Europe related to the recession and economic downturn across Europe.

At a time of crisis “It is important that Christians are willing to denounce racism and to encourage their leaders to work against racism,” says London School of Economics lecturer Dr Sujit Sivasundaram in the latest edition of the Jubilee Centre’s Cambridge Papers.

In his article, Dr Sivasundaram writes that the affirmation of ethnic diversity can give individuals and local communities a sense of cohesion and belonging. He says that churches should set an example of unity and respect for ethnic diversity and warns that economic dislocation in Europe may lead to a new wave of urban unrest in which race is exploited as a factor.

Dr Sivasundaram writes: “The church must be very careful not to ... end up supporting the policies of repressive regimes or supremacist rhetoric. It should stand up for the victimised.”

One in five Christians in Britain belong to a minority ethnic community, and the black-led or black-initiated churches are among the fastest growing. Church leaders in Britain have been united in their commitment to oppose racism and support refugees, even when other issues - such as human sexuality - have proved controversial.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/8329
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RE: Papal History 2009/01/14 18:32:14 (permalink)
Of all God like things, the most divine is to cooperate wih God in the conversion of sinners.
 
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