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Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests

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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/15 08:51:22 (permalink)
those Catholics who seem to regard the body of Christ as beginning and ending at the doors of the Catholic Church.

 
'those' Catholics obviously aren't familiar with what scripture or the Catechism say about what constitutes the Body of Christ
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/15 21:01:55 (permalink)

'those' Catholics obviously aren't familiar with what scripture or the Catechism say about what constitutes the Body of Christ

Those Catholics include the hierarchy.  You might care to take a serious look at the Sr. Lears case. It has all been very educational.
 
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/15 23:02:34 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

Those Catholics include the hierarchy.  You might care to take a serious look at the Sr. Lears case. It has all been very educational.

woman who votes with feet

 
Rising to the upper echelons of an organization doesn’t mean you are particularly knowledgeable or insightful. It just means that you are a good politician.
 
 
 
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 00:19:50 (permalink)

Rising to the upper echelons of an organization doesn’t mean you are particularly knowledgeable or insightful. It just means that you are a good politician.

In the case of appointed positions, it also gives an indication of the values, knowledge, and insight of those doing the appointing.
 
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 00:48:50 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest


Rising to the upper echelons of an organization doesn’t mean you are particularly knowledgeable or insightful. It just means that you are a good politician.

In the case of appointed positions, it also gives an indication of the values, knowledge, and insight of those doing the appointing.

woman who votes with feet

 
Agreed. So the above poster's comment about the Catholics unfamiliar “with what scripture or the Catechism say about what constitutes the Body of Christ” may be correct.
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 01:24:23 (permalink)
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[No, you don't "fight for" what is right.  You do what is right.  You do what is right, no matter the cost.  You do what is right irregardless if anyone else on the face of the earth cares to join you or not.  You do what is right irregardless of what anyone says about you.  You do what is right and you likewise support ONLY those others who will also do what is right.  That's what changes everything.  Fighting, arguing, changes nothing; you'll simply be fighting and arguing in circles for the next 20 centuries, having done absolutely nothing.

How does one do change?  One negotiates for change.
How does one negotiate?  One points to the fact that without the support of women the Church will crumble to dust.  The hierarchy does understand this fact.  What women need to understand is that this fact more than entitles and enables them to demand equal voice and representation in the hierarchy, decision-making, theological development, and instruction of the Church. 

Negotiation is not begging, pleading, waiting, and cowering before a powerful exclusive hierarchy.  Negotiation does not consist of endlessly arguing with a powerful exclusive hierarchy nor succumbing to either its intimidation nor its seductive flattery for yet another 2000 years.  Negotiation consists of making DEMANDS of the hierarchy as a mother fearlessly stands up and makes DEMANDS to ensure the health, security, and well being of HER children.  She also absolutely refuses to settle for less than that those demands be met in HER Church, or she will draw the more than obvious conclusion that it is not her Church at all.  All that is required is for women to be willing to abandon the Church and allow it to fall into dust if their demands for female representation are not met. 

Negotiation is simple.... if women show themselves willing to support the Church only to the exact extent that the hierarchy shows itself willing to support women and children..... the hierarchy will be forced to grow up and admit their current position on women and children is completely untenable. 
Disfunctional relationship between men and women survives only as long as women are willing to participate, support, and model it as the will of God for themselves and their children.
In order to end being treated as an inferior being, you have to stop playing the role of an inferior being while whining, arguing, begging, fighting, or demanding that others change.  Others do not need to change, you do. 

woman who votes with feet

 
To the woman who votes with feet:
 
From my point of view, as a woman called by God to be a Roman Catholic priest, the issue of figuring out the best way to respond to the church is very difficult and extremely complicated.  A call from God comes very gently, very peacefully, very deep within the soul...and figuring out how to live with that call within the confines of the very church that you are called to serve...the same church that does not allow you to answer the call...is extremely burdensome and sad.  It appears that the current choices are very limiting....live within the church, leave the church and go elsewhere, or become a Roman Catholic Womanpriest (which, in reality, eliminates a person from the church).  None of these choices allows a woman to fully live the call she feels from God.  What do you think such a woman should do?
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 03:05:20 (permalink)

From my point of view, as a woman called by God to be a Roman Catholic priest, the issue of figuring out the best way to respond to the church is very difficult and extremely complicated.  A call from God comes very gently, very peacefully, very deep within the soul...and figuring out how to live with that call within the confines of the very church that you are called to serve...the same church that does not allow you to answer the call...is extremely burdensome and sad.  It appears that the current choices are very limiting....live within the church, leave the church and go elsewhere, or become a Roman Catholic Womanpriest (which, in reality, eliminates a person from the church).  None of these choices allows a woman to fully live the call she feels from God.  What do you think such a woman should do?

I sincerely think such a woman should ask God directly and not bother with anyone else's opinion, including mine.  Especially including mine!
 
Once upon a time I asked God directly why God saw fit to send me such lousy priests and got the answer back in my head that it was because I had insisted that God just HAD to be Catholic.  In other words: "I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not put anything before Me" includes all sacred cows, and particularly those sacred cows one most believes in! 
 
If you truly wish to serve God, God will ask you directly about whom you choose to serve and why, have your own sacred cows come to poo on you to make the point clear about the necessity of putting no sacred cows above God, and God will move you about the earth as God sees fit rather than as how you might expect.
 
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 04:00:07 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

I sincerely think such a woman should ask God directly and not bother with anyone else's opinion, including mine.  Especially including mine!

Once upon a time I asked God directly why God saw fit to send me such lousy priests and got the answer back in my head that it was because I had insisted that God just HAD to be Catholic.  In other words: "I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt not put anything before Me" includes all sacred cows, and particularly those sacred cows one most believes in! 

If you truly wish to serve God, God will ask you directly about whom you choose to serve and why, have your own sacred cows come to poo on you to make the point clear about the necessity of putting no sacred cows above God, and God will move you about the earth as God sees fit rather than as how you might expect.

woman who votes with feet

 
I am working on this directly with God...very slowly though and with great patience....as it is no easy task. 
 
However, it is also true that  sometimes God speaks with us through the experience and wisdom of others....and finding people who will honestly discuss this issue and who have seriously given it thought is not always easy.  You seem to be someone unafraid to speak your mind and someone who is honest about the truths you have found  - truths, I'm assuming, you've found in prayer. 
 
You have given me something to think about...I know and agree that "God will move you about the earth as God sees fit rather than as how you might expect" but opening myself up to the possibility of fulfilling a call outside of the Catholic church is something that brings me great sadness.  However, it could be as you said/implied - maybe I am attached to the idea of remaining in the church while, in reality, God has other plans.  I'll have to wait and see.  Thank you for your insight.  And I'd still like to know...what would you actually do if you were me...or in the end, what possible solution do you think God (and I) will come up with for solving this dilemma?
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 05:27:50 (permalink)

You have given me something to think about...I know and agree that "God will move you about the earth as God sees fit rather than as how you might expect" but opening myself up to the possibility of fulfilling a call outside of the Catholic church is something that brings me great sadness. 

Do you not remember Jesus' words about turning one's back on mother and father, sister and brother and all....
all.... in order to follow God?  Great sadness, yes, but surely you didn't think He was kidding...
You cannot bring people inspiration and vision by following them.  You can only bring people inspiration and vision by following God.
 

...what would you actually do if you were me...

I would actually ask God.  I wasn't kidding about that.  I wouldn't kneel or sit in the Church man built and ask God, I would either go out into God's creation (the Church God built!) and pray and fast and ask God, or I would simply walk out into the city and wander about for the entire day and ask God to cross my path with whatever God might happen to come up with to help show me whatever it is that I need to learn from all of this.  I'd keep doing one, the other, or both until I got an answer.

or in the end, what possible solution do you think God (and I) will come up with for solving this dilemma?

In the end?  In the end God will level all the churches on the face of the earth and humanity will learn once again to hear and heed the voice of God directly, as Christ did.  The sacred trees that represent all the great religions on the face of the earth have all become corrupt and they will all be cut down, the harvest will be at hand.
You don't mean the end end, you don't quite mean that end(?)  Oh...Ok.
Well, short of that end.... there's a whole lot of sacred cow poo to shovel out of the way.  We got a whole heck of a lot of sacred cows running around on this earth that just wanna play God and so they end up alienating people from God and God is not real pleased about that at all.  I wouldn't advise following behind any sacred cows if you want to steer clear of their poo.  That's my take on it.
 
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 18:05:50 (permalink)
Oh yes, there is another prayer and meditation technique that you might find useful.  Go get the encyclopedia of saints. Close your eyes, say your prayers, and ask God to give you some examples of people who had similar questions and faced similar issues in their own lives as you have in your own, to help you see whatever it is that you need to see, then open the book to whatever random pages of whatever random saints' lives might appear and start reading.
 
Or alternatively, you might just go through it page by page and play "spot the sacred cow" that each one of them had to quit following in order to follow God in their own lives.  They all did, you know, every last one of them.  God always makes a point of asking people what things in this world they might value more than their relationship with God, God always asks "whom do you serve?"
 
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/02/16 22:32:08 (permalink)
Thank you for your thoughts.  You have given me A LOT to think and pray about.
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/03/03 01:24:23 (permalink)
Dear friends, 

In light of what Father Edgardo Arellano says, you may properly be asking the questions, "What is the case for women priests?"  "If Pope John Paul II has said there can be no women priests, how is it that we are here today advancing the case for women's ordination?" 
 
At www.womenpriests.org, we are a group Roman Catholic theologians who deeply loves our family, the Catholic Church. While we fully accept the authority of the Pope, we also are convinced that he and his advisors in Rome are making a serious mistake by dismissing women as priests. We feel obliged in conscience to make our carefully considered reasons known, fulfilling our duty to speak out as our present Pope has repeatedly told us to do

In doing this, we have carefully assembled literally thousands of documents that will help our visitors assess both sides of the case. Our site is unique in that in addition to outlining the case for women's ordination, we also provide in full all Vatican documents that ban the ordination of women.
 
Back to the question:  "What's the case?"  Our nutshell summary that explains it and provides extensive links is available here:

Conclusion: there are no valid arguments against women priests, and many truly Catholic arguments in favour!  If you have any questions, as always, please let me know!
 
with love and blessings,
 
~Sophie~
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/03/03 01:26:19 (permalink)

 
We feel obliged in conscience to make our carefully considered reasons known, fulfilling our duty to speak out as our present Pope has repeatedly told us to do
 

 

 
"Criticism of papal declarations will be possible and necessary to the degree that they do not correspond with Scripture and the Creed, that is, with the belief of the Church. Where there is neither unanimity in the Church nor clear testimony of the sources, then no binding decision is possible; if one is formally made, then its preconditions are lacking, and therefore the question of its legitimacy must be raised."
 
- Joseph Ratzinger, as he then was, in  Das neue Volk Gottes. Entwuerfe zur Ekklesiologie, p. 144, Patmos 1969.
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/03/03 01:27:43 (permalink)
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/03/07 01:40:31 (permalink)

Conclusion: there are no valid arguments against women priests, and many truly Catholic arguments in favour!   

Still, as a woman called, I am beginning to agree that maybe one cannot remain within the church and be true to one's calling from God to be a woman priest.  Even if we can't actively live the call, can we really belong to an organization that denies our very right of being with God as He wishes? 
 
Being that this site is for those who are attempting to stay within the Catholic church as we work for this basic right, I am wondering if there are any women who feel called to the priesthood who have been able to make peace with themselves within the Catholic church thus staying an active participant.  It is beginning to feel to me like that is an impossibility.  Maybe those who are "fighting for the right" can stay... but can those who feel the call?  
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/03/07 16:54:30 (permalink)
Call to priesthood, how can this be fufilled?  Does one become an Episcopal (Anglican) priest or other Christian denomination,  in order to  do what the great religious teacher and author Joseph Campbell  (Hero With A Thousand Faces and other books) said : Find your bliss.
Or does one struggle on in the RC church? 
 
 Some say life is too short to shortchange your calling.  You can still care about the RC church too and continue the struggle. 
 
 People remind me that women are so rejected in the RC church anyway that all women are considered 'outsiders' to the Vatican, including the nuns which the Vatican does not even invite to the parish diocese once a year priest talks. 
 
 Obviously the pope does not consider even consecrated women, nuns, local group,  part of his Roman parishes.  His recent lenten talks with the Roman diocese priests omits women entirely.  That behavior is so at odds with what Jesus did in the NT. Jesus had the women there, involved  fully and welcomed.
 
 I have children and a full time job, husband so right now this is not specific to me.  However I love learning theology so that would be very fascinating.  If a miracle happened and RC church accepted women, you would be  all ready because RC church accepts ex-Anglican male priests, I suppose with some additional courses taken. I have attended that church and the high mass they have is very similar to RC so that is very good.
 
This pope is so entrenched in denying women their place in the church, and the Vatican culture, the next pope will that one be just more of the same?  I am appalled at reading the speeches and books he puts out.  They lack Gospel values and it is quite distrubing reading what he says, really. 
 
 Catholics still need the reform and visionary help of women like you so I hope you never abandon Catholics entirely.  Other great Christian theologians  and clergy ecumenically reach out to us and offer help to us too even though they are not Catholic.  You are still very much in communion with us even though the Pope rejects all women.  Regular Catholics, most, do not reject women  and support women being ordained.
  What do you think?  This dilemma is so difficult. This should not be a problem at all if only the pope really was in tune with Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Spirit.  My family won't attend the RC church untill it smartens up. They really disapprove of what the pope is doing.
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RE: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2009/03/07 19:58:41 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest


Conclusion: there are no valid arguments against women priests, and many truly Catholic arguments in favour!   

Still, as a woman called, I am beginning to agree that maybe one cannot remain within the church and be true to one's calling from God to be a woman priest.  Even if we can't actively live the call, can we really belong to an organization that denies our very right of being with God as He wishes? 

Being that this site is for those who are attempting to stay within the Catholic church as we work for this basic right, I am wondering if there are any women who feel called to the priesthood who have been able to make peace with themselves within the Catholic church thus staying an active participant.  It is beginning to feel to me like that is an impossibility.  Maybe those who are "fighting for the right" can stay... but can those who feel the call?  



Dear friend, 

Your conclusion captures present circumstances succinctly:

There are no valid arguments against women priests, and many truly Catholic arguments in favour!
I can only try to imagine how difficult it must be to stand in the shoes you do -- 'as a woman called.'   But we are here to offer you support. Avenues of exploration members of our www.womenpriests.org support Team suggest are included in our library document: Six options for Catholic women who feel called to the priesthoood.  The document provides information about what we have identified as possibilities:
An overview with links to all related information is located here: Overview.

If you are willing, I also invite you to write to us.  Addresses of some of our various Team members are here: http://www.womenpriests.org/contact.asp. We are in touch with a large number of women in many countries who personally feel called to the ministerial priesthood. Also, you may consider sending us your testimony or life story for publication on this website so that it can inspire other people too.  I invite you to contact us even just stay in touch -- to give and receive support from women who share a path with you. 

We are grateful for your presence here.  If you have any questions, please let me know.  My own e-address is here: sophiecircles@yahoo.co.uk

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
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Re: Father Edgardo Arellano: Why Women Cannot Be Priests 2014/06/11 19:51:19 (permalink)
Sophie
Dear friends,

In the following presentation, Father Edgardo Arellano attempts to explain and defend the Vatican's position excluding women from priesthood.  Also known as Father Bing, Father Arellano is the Spiritual Director of the Alliance of the Holy Family, International in Rome, Italy.


Father Edgardo Arellano

The video is about 9 minutes long.  You can link with it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmsTaQz2-w   If the link will not work, please cut and paste this link into your browser.

Do you agree with his arguments? Any questions, please let me know.
 
with love and blessings.
~Sophie~

 
 
 
I completely disagree with Father Arellano's and the Vactican's faulty logic and reasoning which keep lay catholic women from becoming priests. The reality is that this is a negative tradition of unfairly keeping women in a subservant role that diminishes their capacity as capable women. Women can and should serve in the priesthood, they are every bit as capable as a man of doing so. The fact is that there is no clear scriptual basis for excluding women from the priesthood, Jesus made no distinction between men and women of his followers and favored his disciple Mary Magdalene. Women occupy and serve in ministry as well as in the priesthood in many other religious communities throughout the world.
 
Futhermore, it would be a great move on the part of female lay Catholic's supportive of any female lay Catholics' wanting to become priests to find other religions which would welcome them with open arms that were open to women wanting to serve in the priesthood, let the remaining Catholic paritioners have their boy's club to themselves.





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