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Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/27 18:21:27 (permalink)
    In the article  Woman In the Creation Stories   Dr. Wijngaards presents the two Genesis Creation stories.
It is the true equality of man and woman, both created in the image of God that the stories both show.
 
(Highlight    Creation Stories    in Sophie's post  above, please. )
 
 
    Dr. Wijngaards concludes :
 
   "Women and men are equal partners entrusted with the task of looking after this world.  If inequalities have crept into human society, they are not according to God's design, but are the consequence of human sin."
  
     His articles are excellent. Thank you Sophie for pointing them out.  We are blessed to have Dr. Wijngaards.
thanks from Maria
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/28 04:04:15 (permalink)
  A great song video about theme of Garden of Eden and woman-man equality
 
 is Peter Gabriel and Sinead O"Connor's    Blood of Eden 
 
  song video       on      www.YouTube.com 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/03 17:30:20 (permalink)
Our origins are from a mastercraftsman we call him God or YHWH.We are a product of God not some accident of random chance as explained through evolution. 

 
Dear friend,

Although our website is not about evolution, the unfolding understanding of how the world came to be stands as a parallel to the unfolding understanding of what women's proper and rightful role in the Church must be.  As a community, we continue to grow in our understanding and awareness of the Truth.  Perhaps it can be said:  It is not the Truth that changes.  Instead, it is our understanding of the Truth that does.

In the this vein, I am inspired to share this message the Holy Father recently delivered at a papal address in Auronzo di Cadore, Italy.

Please enjoy!

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pontiff: Evolution Does Not Exclude a Creator
Says Acknowledging God Will Help Youth Find Meaning



AURONZO DI CADORE, Italy, JULY 27, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI says youth will find meaning in their lives if they acknowledge the existence of their Creator. And, he affirms, the theory of evolution does not require denying God.

The Pope said this Tuesday during a question-and-answer session with 400 priests of the dioceses of Belluno-Feltre and Treviso, in the Church of St. Justina Martyr in Auronzo di Cadore, near Lorenzago di Cadore, where he spent his vacation, which ends today.

The Holy Father spoke about young people's search for meaning, acknowledging that many youth act as if they do not need God, "even thinking that without God, we would be freer and the world would be broader. But after a while, in our new generations, we see what happens when God disappears."

He explained: "The major problem is that if God is not there and the Creator of my life is not there, in reality life is a simple part of evolution, nothing more, it does not have meaning in itself. But I must try to give meaning to this life."

The Pontiff said that today in Germany, and also in the United States, there is a "fervent debate between so-called creationism and evolutionism, presented as if one of these alternatives excluded the other: Whoever believes in the Creator cannot think about evolution and whoever affirms evolution must exclude God."

However, Benedict XVI called this apparent conflict an absurdity.

"Because on one hand," he explained, "there is a great deal of scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and that enriches our knowledge of life and of being as such. But the doctrine of evolution does not answer everything and does not answer the great philosophical question: Where does everything come from? And how does everything take a path that ultimately leads to the person?

"It seems to me that it is very important that reason opens up even more, that it sees this information, but that it also sees that this information is not enough to explain all of reality. It is not enough."

The Pope urged a broader understanding of reason and the recognition of its vastness: "Our reason is not something irrational at heart, a product of irrationality. And reason precedes everything, creative reason, and we are truly the reflection of this reason.

"We are planned and wanted and, therefore, there is an idea that precedes me, a meaning that precedes me, which I must discover, follow and which, in the end, gives meaning to my life."

This vision, the Holy Father continued, is necessary to understand the meaning of suffering as well.

"I would say that it is important to help youth discover God," he concluded, "discover true love that becomes great through renunciation, and therefore to help them discover the interior goodness of suffering, that renders me freer and greater."

© Innovative Media, Inc.

http://zenit.org/article-20238?l=english
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/07 06:50:42 (permalink)
Encouraging news from Canada!

After years of inclusive language war, Bible gets Vatican recognition
By Michael Swan
September 6, 2007
The Catholic Register (www.catholicregister.org)
 
TORONTO, Canada (The Catholic Register) – Eighteen years into a sometimes divisive debate, the Vatican has put a final stamp of approval on the Canadian lectionary – granting a recognitio to the inclusive language of the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) of the Bible in English.
 

“That this has come is obviously a positive thing, not just for women but for all people,” said feminist theologian Doris Keiser, a lecturer in theology at the University of Alberta’s St. Joseph’s College. “When we’re moving forward in the world and allowing our understanding to open up, everyone benefits.”

Canadians have been reading the NRSV at Mass since 1992, when the first edition of the new Sunday lectionary was published with approval from the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. The Canadian NRSV lectionary for weekdays was published in 1994. It was only then that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith objected to NRSV translations.

The NRSV uses inclusive language, referring to both men and women, when the text refers to people. References to God in the NRSV use the pronoun “He.”  In the Pauline letters, this sometimes results in forms of address to a group of people which reads “Brothers” in Greek rendered “Brothers and Sisters” in the NRSV.

Without the recognitio, Canadian Mass texts were left in the position of being the only approved texts for English-language Masses in Canada, but at the same time lacking final Vatican approval. At World Youth Day in 2002, Pope John Paul II used the Canadian lectionary.

“The main issue was not the question of inclusive language,” Archbishop James Weisgerber, Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops vice president, told The Catholic Register. The Vatican’s concern over NRSV translations has been a matter of technical issues and accuracy, said Archbishop Weisgerber. “There is a concern that when you try to make the scriptures speak inclusively it’s important to be accurate,” he said.

A special committee of Canadian bishops has been meeting regularly with Vatican officials working on the details of the text since 2003. With the recognitio in place, the bishops can begin publishing a second edition to the books already in use, starting with Year B, Nov. 30, 2008.

Though it’s been a battleground between right and left in the church for almost a generation, Archbishop Weisgerber doesn’t think most Catholics will even notice the changes. “The ordinary person in the pews, the ordinary celebrant, would not even notice it,” he said.

With most of its inclusive language intact, and an 18-year fight behind it, theologians were careful about the question of who won the language war over the Canadian lectionary

. “I don’t know who won and who didn’t,” said Archbishop Weisgerber. “I actually think it’s kind of a compromise, and kind of a happy compromise between our tradition and more modern kinds of translation.”

“The big question is how it affects people in the pews, because it’s their lectionary,” said theologian Keiser.

“It’s an encouraging kind of decision,” said St. Paul University theologian Cathy Clifford.

The slow pace of decision making between the conference of bishops and the Vatican should surprise no one who really knows the church, said Keiser. “The reality is that the church is not a fast-moving entity. Things take time,” she said. “Even though in my life time 20 years is a long time, in the life of the church it’s a drop in the bucket.”

With the question of which Bible we read in church out of the way, the left and right in the church will likely find new topics for debate, said Archbishop Weisgerber.

“I suspect other issues will emerge and we will divide in similar ways,” said the archbishop.

“If we can’t have that conversation, then there’s something wrong with the way that we’re perceiving ourselves as faithful persons,” said Keiser.

- - -
Michael Swan is the associate editor of The Catholic Register.

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/08 03:28:15 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Sophie

Encouraging news from Canada!

After years of inclusive language war, Bible gets Vatican recognition
By Michael Swan
September 6, 2007
The Catholic Register (www.catholicregister.org
 

The NRSV uses inclusive language, referring to both men and women, when the text refers to people. References to God in the NRSV use the pronoun “He.” 




 
Does this mean the Church believes God to be male?
 
If they are going to change the language to be inclusive to males and females, this should include our description of God also. Otherwise I would favor leaving it as it is.
 
In making some changes gender inclusive and not others, the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) of the Bible succeeds in emphasizing the gender specific nature of the pronoun “He”, thus making God a male.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/08 16:34:00 (permalink)
 
 
 
 
Dear friend,

You make an excellent point in the problem you identify.  It sounds like you are saying that by changing aspects and leaving the key issue unaddressed, it could have the effect of reinforcing the notion that God is...which 'He' is not.

I am interested to hear more about why you think things should be left as they are.  Are any changes to the text appropriate? If things are left the same, and this is used as our key text as Christians, how do we deal with the 'message' this might send to community and non-Christians in terms of what it is we believe? What would you propose as a methood of addressing the gender inequities found in scripture if things are left the same?
 
If others have thoughts they'd like to share, please do.

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~


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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/08 16:36:38 (permalink)
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dear friend,

Another question comes to mind.  If our Church catechism put out and endorsed by the Vatican tells us that God is neither He nor She, why do you think the  Vatican sees it as so important that Canadians leave the scriptural reference to God as 'He?'

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~


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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/08 17:23:26 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Sophie


Dear friend,

You make an excellent point in the problem you identify.  It sounds like you are saying that by changing aspects and leaving the key issue unaddressed, it could have the effect of reinforcing the notion that God is...which 'He' is not.

I am interested to hear more about why you think things should be left as they are.  Are any changes to the text appropriate? If things are left the same, and this is used as our key text as Christians, how do we deal with the 'message' this might send to community and non-Christians in terms of what it is we believe? What would you propose as a methood of addressing the gender inequities found in scripture if things are left the same?

If others have thoughts they'd like to share, please do.

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~




 
If you leave the language as it is, then you could insert footnotes that the terms (He, Brother, Father, etc.) are meant in the generic sense and inclusive of male and female.
 
Regarding other New Testament passages that are clearly sexist or appear to support slavery, etc, such passages also need clear unambiguous explanation regarding the context and times in which they were written. The Church’s position needs to be made clear in no uncertain terms. For instance, do they believe man is head of the household (men have final say in decision making) or that men and women are equal partners in marriage (final decisions not based on being male). You can’t have it both ways.
 
Sexist letters or letters that promote slavery and oppression should not be read at Mass for they distort the Christian message to many who are not equipped mentally to understand that they reflect the culture of the time in which they are written and are not a mandate from God.
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/09 05:59:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Sophie

Encouraging news from Canada!

After years of inclusive language war, Bible gets Vatican recognition
By Michael Swan
September 6, 2007
The Catholic Register (www.catholicregister.org)
 
TORONTO, Canada (The Catholic Register) – Eighteen years into a sometimes divisive debate, the Vatican has put a final stamp of approval on the Canadian lectionary – granting a recognitio to the inclusive language of the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) of the Bible in English. ....


As a sidebar of interest, the following is the copy of a news report from 7 years ago...telling us of the Vatican's then clear opposition to the use of an inclusive language version of the Bible...


Vatican    
HOLY SEE WANTS INCLUSIVE TRANSLATION BANNED

 
Citing doctrinal flaws and dangers to the faith, a Vatican official has instructed the embattled international commission that translates liturgical texts into English to stop circulation of its version of the Old Testament psalms.

Completed in 1993, that translation is known for its use of inclusive language, or vocabulary that is not gender specific. The Vatican official told the International Commission on English in the Liturgy that it has a “duty in conscience” to discourage use of the text, despite any obstacles posed by civil copyright laws.
 
Released as a study text, the translation, known as a psalter, is widely published and used by religious communities for communal prayer.
 
The commission’s psalter has long been viewed with suspicion in Rome. In 1998, the US bishops withdrew their imprimatur, granted in 1995. That decision was made following Vatican representation.
 
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the church’s top doctrinal official, has criticised inclusive language for reflecting feminist ideological influences. He has likewise argued that reducing masculine pronouns makes it difficult to read the psalms “Christologically,” that is, as anticipations of Christ.   
NCR

10/4/00
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/09/09 20:29:34 (permalink)
It would seem that Joseph Ratzinger (our current Pope) is a cheerleader for keeping the notion of a “male” God alive and well. Someone should send him a copy of the Catholic Catechism.
 
It would also seem that he is ignorant of feminist ideology, or else he approves of subjugation of women.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/02/09 19:55:24 (permalink)
 
 
 
 
 
 
A podcast from our friends at www.futurechurch.org

Women and the Word
52m - Christine Schenk, CSJ
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/03/06 03:51:05 (permalink)

A focused department of our website that will be helpful to discussion here is called The Ordination of Women and Sacred Scripture. In terms of current discussion here, some highlights  from the section include four rules for interpreting Scripture correctly.  They ask us to pay heed to:
  1. The literal sense.
  2. Literary form. 
  3. Intended scope.
  4. Rationalizations.



Dear friends,

Often, proponents of an all male priesthood attempt to bolster their position through the assertion of scriptural arguments.  Through a concise and compact overview of scripture, our www.womenpriests.org website founder who now serves as our Academic Advisor, Dr. John Wijngaards provides a helpful guide in understanding how the arguments are refuted. 

Initially, Dr. Wijngaards points out four rules for interpretting scripture correctly.  One must understand:
  • the literal sense
  • literary forms
  • the intended scope
  • and rationalizations.

We will explore these point by point.  If you have any questions as we move along, please let me know.  Here goes!

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/03/06 04:27:25 (permalink)
Four Rules for Interpretting Scripture Correctly:
 
Rule 1: The Literal Sense: We must know what the human author wanted to say before we can come to any conclusions as to what God is telling us.
 
In the Vatican II document, Divine Revelation, we read:


All that the inspired authors, or sacred writers, affirmed should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit . . . The interpreter of the Sacred Scriptures, if he is to ascertain what God has wished to communicate, should carefully search out the meaning which the sacred writers really had in mind, that meaning which God had thought well to manifest through the medium of their words.


As Dr. Wijngaards points out, the 'literal sense' is the sense intended by the human author of scripture.  The important element is the intention of the author and not the 'literalist' or 'fundamentalist' meaning of the words.
In discerning what the 'literal' meaning of the text is -- as opposed to the 'literalist'/fundamentalist' meaning -- we must ask, 'What did the author want to say?'   For instance, when Jesus spoke about God making the sun to rise on both the good and the bad, he was not talking about astronomy.  Instead, he was talking about how great is the love of God.
 
In making discernment, it is important to keep in mind that since God speaks through human authors, God follows their human mind and heart and way of speaking. We will only know what God was trying to say by knowing what his human instrument wanted to say.
 
More to follow~
 
http://www.womenpriests.org/scriptur/literal.asp
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/03/07 14:06:48 (permalink)
In the article by Phyllis Zagano Glass Ceiling  she shows women were bishops in the Catholic church. 
 
 There is lots of proof women were apostles, priests and bishops in the church.  Also see Theologians Who Support Women Priests thread, Resources section .
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/04/16 01:54:21 (permalink)
Women scholars belong at synod on the Word
By RITA L. HOULIHAN
National Catholic Reporter
April 18, 2008

At the beginning of his resurrected life, Jesus chose St. Mary Magdalene to witness and announce his resurrection. Yet, too often, women leaders, biblical and otherwise, are invisible in church preaching and proclamation.
Pope Benedict XVI has called a Worldwide Synod of Bishops on “The Word of God in the Life and Mission of the Church” for October of this year.

According to synod leaders, the meeting will pay special attention to “the Word of God in liturgy, in preaching, in catechesis, in theology, spirituality, public and private meditation, enculturation and ecumenism.”

Jesus relied on faithful women and men. Will Benedict and our bishops also? Will they invite women biblical scholars as expert consultants to the synod? Or will they overlook the fact that women have been active ministers of the Word from the start of Christian history and still are today?

Only 14 women were invited as nonvoting observers to the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist. No women theologians were invited as expert consultants, though this would have been a simple way for our bishops to include the perspectives of women. By contrast, 242 bishops attended with full voting privileges.

Currently, 40 percent of the 1,600 members of the Catholic Bible Association are women. These 640 women biblical scholars constitute a rich resource for the synod.

I for one hope and pray and am optimistic that Pope Benedict and the bishop delegates to the synod will correct this painful situation by inviting women biblical scholars as expert consultants in 2008.

Benedict himself honored first-century women leaders in a February 2007 address, saying, “The story of Christianity would have had a very different trajectory were it not for the generosity brought to it by many women. ... Their work was anything other than secondary.” I pray that our pope puts these words of praise into practice and supports Christian women leaders in the 21st-century church.

It is time for church officials to go back to our Christian roots for inspiration. They could examine how Jesus included women in all aspects of his discipleship. They might see how fully inclusive Jesus’ mission was -- a mission that included, relied on and honored women benefactors (Joanna, Susanna and St. Mary Magdalene), women students (Mary of Bethany), and women believers. They could bring the inclusive Jesus to life in 2008.

For the past year, FutureChurch, a national Catholic organization, has spearheaded a campaign requesting that women biblical scholars be invited as consultants to the Synod on the Word. The campaign also asks for more pastoral attention to Jesus’ and St. Paul’s inclusive practice and suggests simple actions parishes can take to make visible women’s leadership and experience in church preaching. At least 5,000 electronic and snail-mail postcards have been mailed to the Vatican and to individual U.S. bishops.

Jesus left us a vision of the world as it can be, a place where “there does not exist among you Jew or Greek, slave or freeman, male or female. All one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). It is every Catholic’s responsibility to make that vision reality now.

Rita L. Houlihan is a member of FutureChurch’s board of trustees.

National Catholic Reporter, April 18, 2008
 
http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2008b/041808/041808s.htm
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/05/04 20:09:21 (permalink)
When Paul says that he sees things through a glass darkly, he acknowledges his self awareness that he doesn't grasp the 'big picture' fully.
 
The prevailing culture made it impossible for Paul to understand to its full extent the equality in Christ between men and women that he so firmly believed in (Galatians 3:28.)
 
Because Paul treated women as inferiors does not mean that his modelling should be taken as a virtue to be emulated.  Paul was Paul.  He was not Christ. 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/08/28 20:50:07 (permalink)
From our friends at FutureChurch.org

Women and the Word Synod 2008: Put Women Back in the Biblical Picture

'You wrote to your bishop, now write to the Vatical Secretary General and U.S. Advisors.' Underneath, it reads 'Put Women Back in the Biblical Picture.'

Dear Friend of Women's Equality in the Church:

Please help "put women back in the Biblical picture" at next October's Synod on "The Word of God in the Life and Mission of the Church" by sending a NEW e-postcard addressed to Archbishop Nikola Eterovic, the Secretary General of the Synod of Bishops.

Your first e-postcard helped shape your Bishop's input to the Synod.

Your second e-postcard will influence U.S. and Vatican Synod organizers, so please take this important next step in the campaign.

Your message will automatically be cc'd to the US synod delegates: Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington DC (a bishop advisor to the Synod), Cardinal Francis George of Chicago (the President of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops), Bishop Gerald Kicanas of Tucson (USCCB vice-president), Cardinal Daniel DiNardo of Houston, Cardinal Justin Rigali of Philadelphia (alternate delegate) and Bishop William Skylstad of Spokane (alternate delegate). Of course, Pope Benedict XVI will also receive a copy.

Act Now - Our voice - and the voices of hidden biblical women must be heard.

For more information and action, click here: http://www.futurechurch.org/watw/postcards/
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/08/30 20:57:18 (permalink)
Saint Catherine of Siena Virtual College is looking for a few brave women!
 
 

"Yes, we are looking for a few brave women!"

  • Are you a go-getter, prepared to face new challenges?
  • Do you relish learning in the company of trusted women?
  • Are you able to reflect on your own experience and to advise others based on your personal experiences?
Two brand new online courses are opening: 

We are looking for "a few brave women" who will test-drive one of our two brand-new courses (listed on the left) and to offer us feedback along the way.  You will be learning in a revolutionary modality that fosters collaborative learning within a multi-cultural environment. You will also get a look behind the scenes as technicians and educators work side-by-side to produce a flawless and stimulating learning environment. You will save over $200 in tuition (our gift to you for your feedback and guidance).
 
If you are persuaded that you are ready for this mission, then please tell us so in an email. Also tell us about yourself:

  1. Which course have you selected? What brings you to be interested in this course at this time in your life?
  2. How much time would you be able to devote to this course each week beginning on 07 September 2008?
  3. What sort of internet access will you be using? If you are unsure as to how adequate your system will be, take out five minutes and perform Test #1 and Test #2.
  4. Please list the courses (academic or otherwise) that you have taken in feminist studies and in religious studies. List them in order of their contribution to your personal growth and development.
  5. Would you be able to contribute €35 (US$50 or equivalent) in exchange for taking this course? If not, what could you contribute? Reduced to $20 for USA. All fees waived for "brave women" living outside the USA.
Looking forward to being of help to you,

Deborah & Aaron Rose-Milavec
Joint Vice Presidents
Saint Catherine of Siena Virtual College

 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/08/30 20:59:09 (permalink)
Dear friends, 

One of the new courses is about women's leadership in the context of scripture.  It includes time spent on scriptural interpretation, etc.  The course is designed by our website founder (scripture scholar who now serves as our Academic Advisor) Dr. Wijngaards and is called: Women's Ministries according to the Christian Scriptures.
 
The outline of the course lessons looks like this:



Lesson 1: Taking stock of the ‘for-men-only’ interpretation. Survey of the arguments against women’s religious leadership in the church based on sacred scripture.



Lesson 2: Rules of the correct interpretation of Sacred Scripture Literal sense, literary form, intended scope, rationalizations.



Lesson 3: What to make of Old Testament passages?  Male domination in Old Testament times.



Lesson 4: What may we read into Jesus’ omitting women from the apostolic twelve? Did the absence of women from the original twelve apostles establish a permanent norm for the future church?



Lesson 5: Jesus liberated women Jesus gave women an equal status in his spiritual Kingdom which implies openness to all leadership functions.



Lesson 6: Paul’s attitude to women Though Paul occasionally lapsed into tolerating the ancient cultural prejudices against women, he reaffirmed the basic equality of women and men in Christ.



Lesson 7: What about the role ascribed to Mary, the mother of Jesus? In tradition Mary has been given the paradoxical position of being almost divinised on the one hand while being made the model of female submissiveness on the other.



Lesson 8: Have women been forbidden for all time to ‘teach in Church’? Women are forbidden to teach in two late passages of the New Testament. These texts can be shown to concern temporary and time-bound instructions for local communities.



Lesson 9: Nuptial imagery of the Bride and Bridegroom Christ’s symbolic role as the Bridegroom in some scriptural passages does not imply that women cannot represent him in leadership roles.



Lesson 10: Putting it all together

Reflection on the course’s bearing on:

(a) scriptural rules of interpretation
(b) traditional scriptural arguments against women’s leadership
(c) positive scriptural arguments affirming women’s leadership.

If you are interested in taking part, the College is actively seeking a 'few brave women' to help out by participating in the initial run of the course. For more information click here:
 
For more information, click here:
 
 
 
or here: RE: Announcements  If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

If you do take the course, please come back to share feedback!

with love and blessings,

~Sophie~
post edited by Sophie - 2008/08/30 21:00:46
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2008/08/30 21:03:02 (permalink)
 

Catherine of Siena College
 
Empowering Women for Leadership

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