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Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 06:43:21 (permalink)
“The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints.”
 
So what is the message to women? It is better to be a dead saint than a live priest.
 
Of course they know it is possible to be both a saint and a priest. And they know that service and love of God and love of neighbor are most important, not attempts to attain greatness in heaven.
 
So the purpose of this statement is to make women, with the desire to become a priest, feel better. Rather it seems they are making themselves feel better.
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 07:18:45 (permalink)
you know, it's too bad that women who work for women's dignity get accused of being uppity.  If the job could be easily done, I sure wouldn't waste my energy on doing it the hard way.
 
unfortunately in this picture, there is no easy way.  I doubt that i'll see women priests in my time.  I am doing what I'm doing for my daughters and granddaughters and mostly to help our community be more christian.
 
those naysayers who speak negatively about women:  they might as well join the apostles who spoke negatively about jesus when he talked to the samaritan women.
 
who are you  going to stand with?  Jesus? or who?  think about it.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 07:19:44 (permalink)
good point.  jesus and justice? or who and what
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 07:26:02 (permalink)
Pope John Paul II explains that Rome's capacity to act is limited by the example set by Jesus himself.  He chose only men as apostles -- or so they say.  According to Rome, this precedent set by our Lord is part of God's eternal plan. Rome has no choice in the matter

 
what ever happened to the 'keys to the kingdom?'  Did somebody in Rome lose them?
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 15:17:07 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

“The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints.”

So what is the message to women? It is better to be a dead saint than a live priest.

Of course they know it is possible to be both a saint and a priest. And they know that service and love of God and love of neighbor are most important, not attempts to attain greatness in heaven.

So the purpose of this statement is to make women, with the desire to become a priest, feel better. Rather it seems they are making themselves feel better.


 
When I read that line in the apostolic letter, I thought of Pope Benedict's unusual statement last August when he talked about women's 'superiority.'   He was talking about being unable to admit women into Holy Orders.  This is a portion of the text:

But there's a juridical problem: according to Canon Law the power to take legally binding decisions is limited to Sacred Orders. So there are limitations from this point of view but I believe that women themselves, with their energy and strength, with their superiority, with what I'd call their "spiritual power," will know how to make their own space. And we will have to try and listen to God so as not to stand in their way but, on the contrary, to rejoice when the female element achieves the fully effective place in the Church best suited to her, starting with the Mother of God and with Mary Magdalene.

Though very nice, putting this together with what Pope John Paul II said in his apostolic letter, makes them both seem peculiar.  Is Pope Benedict saying that they want people who are inferior to be priests?  if women are superior, wouldn't it make sense that a woman be Pope?  Is he saying that the work of Holy Orders is such dirty work, that we wouldn't want women, the superior beings, to have to get their hands dirty? 
 
Now reading the two of them together, I almost wonder whether they think women are intellectually inferior beings that all it takes is a bit of flattery to make us go away with our questions and the work we are called to do 'within' the institutional Church.
 
looking for some enlightenment on what is starting to sound like double speak going on.  Say one thing but mean completely another.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 15:37:58 (permalink)
in God’s wisdom, it was granted to women—not men—to have the awesome and unique role of carrying a newly created human life in the womb. Men could complain that it is not fair to be excluded from that, but to what avail? That is a physical reality. The man’s ability to image Christ as a sacramental priest is a spiritual reality—but it is no less real.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 16:48:18 (permalink)
In God’s wisdom, men have the ability to produce sperm women do not. Men have the ability to produce a Y chromosome. Women do not. This has nothing to do with becoming a priest.
 
Both men and women are made in the image and likeness of God. Both can be icons of Christ. For Christ is God. Hence both can represent Christ in his ministry.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/29 17:41:01 (permalink)
By the way, many female animals carry life in their wombs. It is the human spirituality that sets women apart from the animals. God is spirit and without gender. Women are just as connected to God as men.
 
Jesus would never turn a woman away who came to him and wanted to preach his Gospel.  Such discrimination and exclusionary tactics are not in the nature of God. They are however in the nature of humans (men and women alike).
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/30 22:11:33 (permalink)
  The giant error in both Pope Paul V1's announcement as well as Pope John Paul 2's announcement is they forget about an Apostle called Mary Magdalene, she whom Pope Gregory in 599 smeared as wanton prostitute without any scriptural basis and church retracted this error and apologized for this misatake in 1969. Slooooooooooooow moving hierarchy when it comes to correcting its errors!
   This Apostolic Amnesia is only directed at Female Apostles, just as Junia the lady Apostle mentioned in the Acts had her name changed to the male name to rewrite excluding women again.  Scholarly research finally rid us of this deception too, just as scholarly research rid us of the deception that smeared Mary Magdalene's reputation for 1000 years of Church history.
     Denying that there were female Apostles is a deception that will not work with anyone who values honesty, truth and the way and will of Jesus who made Mary Magdalene an Apostle, who called Junia to be an Apostle, who had lady disciples including Joanna and Susanna.
      The Roman hierarchy tries to rewrite but Jesus's teachings,  Jesus's words recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke , John, Jesus's actions and examples in regards to his interactions with men and women reveal the glaring errors in the Pope Paul V1 and Pope John Paul 11 's proclamations against women's ordination.  Mary Magdalene, the Apostle and Jesus and the other Apostles reveal the real truth: women were Apostles and ministers too called, appreciated, trusted, defended and valued by Jesus.  Time to stop the falsehoods and denials of reality and ordain women.  The truth is women too were Apostles, were ministers- priests- humble servants called and praised by Jesus.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/31 16:08:14 (permalink)
Jesus chose twelve Jewish men to be Apostles; therefore all priests should be men.
 
God chose a French peasant girl (St. Joan of Arc) to lead an army. This must mean that all army leaders should be teenage girls.
 
Peace.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/03/31 18:11:40 (permalink)
good point.  one could also say:
 
Jesus chose only Jewish  circumsized men as his apostles.  Therefore, if it takes modelling an apostle to be a priest, only Jewish circumsized men can be Catholic priests.
 
This means our church is filled with men invalid ordinations that properly should be annulled.  And not only this:  most Popes have not been up to the mustard since they are neither Jewish nor circumsized.  (well, it might be hard to obtain the data for the latter part but the first disqualification is obvious.)  
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/01 02:13:18 (permalink)
Women cannot be priests. Study.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/01 05:28:20 (permalink)
Faith even the size of a mustard seed can move a mountain.
 
Women can and will become priests in the Catholic Church.
 
Open your heart.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/01 06:05:48 (permalink)
I appreciate the articles especially the material about the Pontifical Biblical Commission.  No reason given for the Vatican's neglect of the PBC's report? The fact the Vatican has not explained why the Report was ignored speaks volumes.  It is not difficult to fill in the blanks.  The PBC's conclusion that no biblical evidence exists to require exclusion of women from ordained ministry is not what the Vatican had hoped to hear.
 
Whatever one might think of the legitimacy of ordaining women to the priesthood,  no one can gratuitously assert that Jesus or the New Testament explicitly prohibited the practice.


 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/01 18:41:54 (permalink)
Dear friends,

A guest generously shared the following insight from Carol Ann Morrow in our thread, Mary of Magdala: The ultimate Apostle to the Apostles!  Since it offers nourishment for discussions about women priests from the perspective of scripture, I include it for our consideration here -- once again but now in this context.

With love and blessings,
~Sophie~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Apostle has multiple meanings and most of them apply to Mary Magdalene with ease. She is one sent on a mission. She is an authoritative person sent out to preach the Gospel. She is first to advocate an important belief. Or to put those in other terms, she points the way as disciple, partner and evangelist. Preceding all of that, of course, she is an eyewitness to the wonders of Jesus among us.
  • WITNESS: “If the women had not stood by and witnessed the death of Jesus on the cross, then followed his body, accompanied it to the tomb, returned on the first day of the week in the morning to anoint again and found the tomb empty, then announced to the disciples their experience of the risen Lord,” Elizabeth Johnson* suggests that “we wouldn’t know what happened! They [the women, with Mary Magdalene always in their number] are the thread of continuity through the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus.”
  • DISCIPLE: “Mary Magdalene is a founding mother of the Church,” says Johnson. “She ministered to Jesus during his own ministry, sharing things with him, and was one of his followers in Galilee. She was a faithful disciple during the last hours of his life.”
  • PARTNER: This more accurate assessment of Mary Magdalene’s role in the Easter mystery can support and strengthen women in the Church today. Professor Johnson feels that it can inspire everyone. “Those men who are desirous of partnership with women in the Church also find this a joyous rediscovery. Partnership is a different view of the beginning of our history as a Church, which then gives a different view of what our future could be as well.”
  • EVANGELIST: Elizabeth Johnson describes the Acts of the Apostles as Volume II of Luke’s work, telling the history of the early Church. It is Acts 1:14 that she cites: “All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.”

What did they proclaim? Mary Magdalene was sent forth from the tomb with the message, “Jesus is risen.” Paul writes, “And if Christ has not been raised, then empty [too] is our preaching; empty, too, your faith” (1 Cor 15:14). That is the Gospel truth, first heard from the lips of a woman, a woman named Mary Magdalene. Throughout the Church year, it is Mary’s message that we are challenged to proclaim with as much boldness and integrity as she did.
-Carol Ann Morrow

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Elizabeth Johnson, referred to in the text, is Dr. Elizabeth Johnson, CSJ. She earned her Ph.D. at the Catholic University of America and teaches at Fordham University.  Her  research interests: Systematic theology, feminist theology. Author, editor, teacher, and public lecturer in theology, her main areas of research focus on the theology of God, Jesus Christ, Mary and the communion of saints, science and religion, the problem of suffering, ecological ethics, and issues related to justice for women. A former president of the Catholic Theological Society of America, the oldest and largest association of theologians in the world, she is currently (2006) president-elect of the American Theological Society. She is also an active member of the American Academy of Religion and the College Theology Society, and serves on the editorial boards of the journals Theological Studies, Horizons: Journal of the College Theology Society, and Theoforum. She loves to teach and is most fond of receiving Fordham University’s Teaching Award (1998). Deeply involved in the life of the church, she is a religious sister in the Congregation of St. Joseph, Brentwood, NY. Her public service in the church includes being a theologian on the national Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue; a consultant to the Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Women in Church and Society; a theologian on the Vatican-sponsored dialogue between science and religion, and on the Vatican-sponsored study of Christ and the world religions; and a core committee member of the Common Ground Initiative started by Cardinal Joseph Bernardin to reconcile polarized groups in the church.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/02 18:18:13 (permalink)
The material about who are the apostles is fascinating.

The thing that keeps crossing my mind when I connect this with the report of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, I am astounded by the Vatican's unwillingness to 'resolve doubt' in favour of including women.

Pontifical Biblical Commission says there is nothing in Scripture that prohibits ordination of women.

Jesus appointed women as apostles, eg Mary Magdalene.

We know the scripture is androcentric so in fact there may be other women who functioned as apostles who arent' mentioned.

St. Paul recognised women apostles -- Junia.

Throughout Christian history, the faithful have recognised women apostles. Mary Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles, Nina Apostle to Georgia.

It is not a big stretch to include women.

It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that the Vatican sees women in the role of servants: not of God but of men. The Vatican's unwillingness to see women as equals speaks volumes as to where this organisation is heading. More and more quickly, it is becoming a meaningless institution that does not even represent the leader it claims to follow: Jesus. The Vatican's fear of modernity means it is not relating to contemporary society. It is resists acknowledging contemporary reality.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/03 02:08:04 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest
Women cannot be priests. Study.

Which would you have me study, God or man?
Which do you feel you have studied, God or man?
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/03 02:19:49 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

Women cannot be priests. Study.

 
"Women cannot be priests. Study."  This has a bit of the same ring to it as, "Me Tarzan. You Jane." 
 
I am interested to hear you elaborate on what you mean when you say, "women cannot be priests. study." 
 
That is what I am doing here...studying...and by everything I read from the Vatican and otherwise, my studies disclose that women have been, can be, and should continue to be priests.  I'll be interested to hear you say why you think this is not the case.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/03 03:28:13 (permalink)
Ha!  At least Tarzan had his identifications straight:  "Tarzan," "Jane," "tree,"  "elephant,"....   Nowhere do we see Tarzan walk out into the middle of the forest and marvel at all of God's wonderous creation and say "man!"
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/04/03 05:36:36 (permalink)
women can be priests. study.
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