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Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/03 16:29:48 (permalink)
    THANK YOU SOPHIE  for FutureChurch link!
 
     The article by Christine Schenk, Cleveland Sisters of Joseph, theologian about Jesus and Women and the other articles are very good!
 
      Thanks for the link to this. Many great suggestions!   Janet
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/03 16:47:21 (permalink)
  Did you know a woman anointed      Jesus's head  ?      Matthew 26:6-13  .
  Jesus praised her.  I knew about the anointing of Jesus's feet and washing of them by a woman's hair only.
 
   This shows how Jesus is anointed by a woman and commissioned by God through a woman's anointing.
Nowadays we anoint newly ordained priests with sacred oil.
 
    This shows once again how JGod and Jesus considered women equal to men because Jesus gave the awesome anointing duty to a woman and praised her.
 
     How then can our church keep claiming women should be excluded from being priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals when Jesus himself and God praised women doing such "priestly or bishop type duties".  Janet
 
  
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/06 23:40:37 (permalink)
Well, I scoured this thread, and I am disapppointed, but I can't say I'm surprised, that the Woman Taken in Adultery is not mentioned.

The idea contained in the annointing at Bethany (e.g. a woman serving as priest) was interesting, but could have been tied to this other important passage (John 8:1-11).

The significance of the Pericope de Adultera is deep, and interestingly, the only person I think that has begun to unpack its importance for women's issues was O'Day, who noted that Jesus treated the party of Religious leaders and the (single) party of the woman as equals.

Only Culpepper bothered to mention this fact in O'Day's penetrating article on the PA.

But I have to say, that there is a lot more to John 8:1-11 than anyone has hitherto exposed.

The passage has been attacked, partly for misogynistic reasons, but also for political ones.  But it is 100% authentic to John's Gospel, in spite of the footnotes in many "modern" versions...

Peace,
Nazaroo
 
post edited by Sophie - 2007/06/08 06:19:57
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 12:45:47 (permalink)
  Nazaroo   Welcome   We certainly do  refer to the Woman Taken In Adultery!
 
                    I   personally have posted many times about THE WOMAN TAKEN IN ADULTERY! I have read references to her many times on this women priests web site too.
 
                     This  passage from John  is extremely important as one of Jesus's first very public acts of his mercy and justice in the application of the law and his braveness and integrity in dealing with the cunning of the Pharisees.
 
                      I will see when I get time I will look through these threads to tell you the many times we have referred to the very important passages of the Woman Taken in Adultery.
 
                      Rest assured this is very important in the ministry of Jesus and we fully recognize that.  I understand why it is an important web.      Why your own personal interest and do you think women should be ministers and priests too and do you think Islamic Sharia laws that stone women to death are right or wrong?  I am glad you came here.  I too am very interested in scriptural study and the teachings of Jesus.     Connie
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 13:52:50 (permalink)
  I am thinking some more about this and the website you tell us about is very important and shows us stoning is wrong and Jesus valued women and forgiveness and transformation to new life.  I am grateful to see that website and how  did it get started and why please? It is very important as it shows women too have value and dignity and the right  to justice and mercy and forgiveness because of the words, actions and teachings of Jesus.  I have read about Woman Taken in Adultery on this womenpriest site and about what is now happening to women in Islamic countries  because these people who come here also recognize the supreme importance of how Jesus treated the Woman Caught in Adultery.  You have to flip back in the posts to find references to it but these people do know it is very important.  You are very appreciated bringing to us information about this special site about this Adultery charge and the Woman and Jesus.  Thank you very much. I agree it is very important.      Connie
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 14:37:26 (permalink)
Dear Connie:

Thank you for your encouragement and support!

You asked how it got started:

Connie:  "I am grateful to see that website and how  did it get started and why please?"
 
This is a good question!  Many years ago when I became a Christian, I was exposed to the problem of variations in the New Testament text through the footnotes in some modern versions. 

At the time I was exasperated and greatly disturbed how people could put such footnotes in the text, and obviously mutilate it in so many places.  The claim was that some verses or phrases "were not found in the oldest and best manuscripts" or some such tripe.

But being brought up as a Westerner in a scientific democracy, and appreciating the value of open science and transparency, I was angered and determined to get to the bottom of it.

What I discovered was a lot of politics and very little faith in the texts.  What I found was a lot of fuzzy thinking, and very little of any scientific or even rational value whatever in the work done.

What I found was most of the 'modern' work of 'reconstructing' the Bible was done before the turn of the 19th century! 

I found that most of the claims of 'modern' versions (translations) were just hot air.  I was dumbfounded, and as a stop-gap measure, I knew I had to make a choice to return to the Traditional Text (King James Version/ Latin Vulgate) or abandon the "Word of God" in the Bible.

But my enlightenment from the New Testament could not be denied, and so I chose to hang onto the traditional text until I could get to the bottom of these claims and variants. 

I discovered that the work that had been done was unscientific, often anti-Christian in spirit and result, and mediocre at best. I knew from that point on that I must do the work myself, from a believer's perspective, but using scientific methods, not subjectivism.

I have been doing this for over thirty years, but I confess I have been lazy.  Only recently I was prodded again by Christian friends to get back to work, and this in combination with my knowledge of computer technology enabled me to creat the website.

As for motivation, I hardly need more motivation than the fact that men are still travelling and acting in gangs like cowardly animals, and "blaming the woman" for their own sin.

I don't think women are saints, but I know men are responsible for at least half the evil in this world (if not a lot more...).

It was obvious to me from the beginning that this passage and the issue it addresses was no mere hypothetical or theological question, but a LIFE AND DEATH matter.

To quote my own website:

People are still being Stoned to Death Today:

It may seem inconceivable to many people in the West, but the practice of stoning people to death still goes on in many other parts of the world. Such barbaric practices are commonplace over perhaps a third of the inhabited earth.

(For documentation on this fact, you may go to our World Watch page here:
World Watch: Stoning for Adultery ).

Historically, stoning has ceased in the West mainly from the impact of Christian teachings and values such as forgiveness, and the continuing democratic reforms which have established religious tolerance and basic human rights as foundations of our society.
 

The Practice of Stoning violates Basic Human Rights:

One of the most important advances in human rights for all people has been the recognition that torture is a violation of human rights. Even those who advocate the 'death penalty' for key crimes like murder, understand that torture is an inappropriate and ineffective tool in the search for justice.

Stoning not only inevitably involves torture. Suffering is actually designed and built into the practice as it is prescribed by Law and Religion in many parts of the world. For instance, in Islamic countries, the actual size of the stones used for a stoning is regulated: The purpose is plainly stated. The stones should neither be too large (to kill the person too quickly), or too small (to prevent serious injury).

Typically victims of stonings are tied up and held for days or months in inhumane conditions. To this is added the psychological torture of dispair, while they await their inevitable death. Finally, victims are tied up and buried to the waist or higher, preventing escape or even effective struggle during the killing. Their heads are covered with cloth to further dehumanize them to the crowds, and prevent them from confronting their cowardly executioners.

Modern trials in which people are given basic rights such as the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty are almost unheard of. Instead, people are convicted by hearsay and circumstantial evidence, often using forced confessions. The executions will be carried out by virtual mobs of vigilantes or lynching parties. These killers will typically be local villagers lacking any education other than religious instruction by extremists.

Women and Children are the Majority of Victims:

A disproportionately large number of victims in these cases are women. These women are often falsely accused, or framed for the purpose of simply getting rid of them. This allows an unsatisfied husband to freely find another younger or more beautiful bride. The result is an unstable family unit with little support for the basic human rights of women or children.

Obviously and especially in these cases, the issue of women's rights goes far beyond mere Western gender issues or minor inequalities, but extends deeply into violations of basic human rights. The injustice and inequality is shockingly blatant and forms the core of a widespread system of extreme abuse. It is no exaggeration to describe these conditions as a horrific nightmare for many innocent people.

Injustice on this scale deeply entrenches cycles of poverty, ignorance and suffering. "


I hope this helps to answer your question about how I got into this.

Peace,
Nazaroo
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 16:10:56 (permalink)
  Thank you Nazaroo Have you read any of Bart Ehrman's books like Misquoting Jesus ,   Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene.
,    Jesus  Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium? 
   New Testament Scriptural Historian Theologian and Professor:   he too was upset by the variations among early ancient manuscripts of Christian texts in first century C.E.:  Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic  and Coptic and further more with the many  English Bible Translations since the 15th century.   His books are scholarly and also easy to read with lots of flashes of wisdom and humour too.
     What do you think of Samaritan woman passages and their view on the value of women and Jesus?
     What is your opinion please on women and the priesthood in the Roman Catholic church? Do you approve of Protestant churches having women priests or as sometimes they are called pastors or ministers which means priest too?
      Would you consider publishing a book about this John chapter and all your wonderful research and writings and call it a title referring to Woman Caught in Adultery or a title you like as this is very important and your ideas are excellent and I appreciate they are on the web but books can be rather permanent and be in school, college, home and university libraries.
       What do you think of this notion put forth by some that a priest has to be a man to be bridegroom and the eucharist communion bread is somehow a sexual male sacrafice?  See Peter Kreeft thread please.  I find this view an abomination and dreadful distortion of the sacred bread of life of Jesus.  I do not see the holy bread of communion as a sex act at all that can only be presided over by men.  I think this wrong "theology' must be ended and is a terrible heresy. Another good reason the Catholic church needs women priests.  What do you think of the Roman Catholic pedophile scandal?  Do these crazy "male only' priest notion contribute to it?  Have you seen Sex Crimes and the Vatican  the document is on the CBSNEWS.com website.    Thank you for posting about Stoning of Women and the web site!  Blessings from Connie.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 16:19:56 (permalink)
  Hi Nazaroo  Have you read The Beast Within  by Neil Boyd   about how men can abuse women and why.
It is very interesting and certainly related to the phenomena of stoning and abuse of women and children.
   Have you read Extraordinary Evil, A short History of Genocide: A Short Walk from Contempt to Exclusion and Murder by Barbara Colorosa?  These also could be incorporated as quotes in your book about John, adultery and stoning and abuse of the perceived weaker vulnerable person, children and women.  I think you have a fascinating idea here and it should be collated and published as a permanent book.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 18:40:36 (permalink)
Thank you Nazaroo Have you read any of Bart Ehrman's books like Misquoting Jesus ,   Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene.
,    Jesus  Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium? 
New Testament Scriptural Historian Theologian and Professor:   he too was upset by the variations among early ancient manuscripts of Christian texts in first century C.E.:  Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic  and Coptic and further more with the many  English Bible Translations since the 15th century.   His books are scholarly and also easy to read with lots of flashes of wisdom and humour too.


Unfortunately, Ehrman is a problematic person.

He has certainly written on equality and women's issues in a positive manner, but he is not any kind of Christian, and his liberalism should not be mistaken for true enlightenment. 

His concern is largely a reflection of the modern academic environment, which is pro-feminist (not necessarily bad!) and also pro-gay (getting into questionable issues here) and finally and ultimately ANTI-Christian (this is NOT a good thing.)

I will not go so far as to say his 'woman-friendly' attitude is just a front, but I strongly suspect his real moral and ethical basis is severely flawed, for some very important reasons. 

On the all-important question of how he has used his position of power and authority, he has completely betrayed the cause of Christ and Christianity. 

  His books are scholarly and also easy to read with lots of flashes of wisdom and humour too.


We must disagree strongly with two statements here.  These books, such as "Misquoting Jesus" are not 'scholarly' at all.  They are wholly fraudulent. To qualify properly as scholarly, they would have to be honest and accurate.  His 'flashes' of humour should not be mistaken for real wisdom either.

For those who actually respect Holy Scripture, we can quote a single true proverb:





"The fool says in his heart, there is no God."



Concerning his worldview and his personal belief-system, Ehrman openly calls himself an 'agnostic', but his public statements about his 'agnosticism' clearly indicate that he really means he is an atheist.  This is an important difference, and a good example of his basic deception and dishonesty.

You may think these statements are too strong, and that somehow there has been a misunderstanding.  However, I can assure you that this is not the case.

Please allow me to explain further what the exact nature of the problem is.

Ehrman has publicly and repeatedly stated that the Pericope de Adultera (John 8:1-11) is a late Medieval 'insertion' into the Gospel of John.

This is not simply a case of scholarly difference of opinion, or of some confusion regarding the evidence and its plain meaning.   Ehrman has here actively engaged in a long protracted campaign of deception and lies about the evidence, and the true nature of the case.

We must underline here that its not simply a case of Ehrman making a mistake.

Ehrman was caught red-handed, lying. Not small lies but big huge lies. Repeatedly in the public media before millions of listeners and viewers.

Ehrman wasn't lying on his day off, or in the privacy of his own home, or in a moment of jest.

Ehrman wasn't taken 'out of context', or recorded while drunk at a party.

Ehrman has been engaged in an international organized campaign to slander and discredit the New Testament and traditional Christianity of every flavor.

Ehrman has acted as a blatant liar, spreading false propaganda, and has done so with the financial backing of wealthy Jewish interests in the USA.

He has been actively attacking the Pericope de Adultera for over three years now, as well as the truth and accuracy of Holy Scripture.

We have fully documented the actions and behaviour of Bart Ehrman, and published them on the internet here:

Bart Ehrman's Campaign against John 8:1-11
 
I know this article is long, but please read carefully what Ehrman has been doing in the public media.  If you look at this evidence you will be better informed about the true nature of this man and his real motives in slandering this passage.

Regarding the contents of "Misquoting Jesus",  There are a dozen good critical reviews on the internet, all demonstrating what a disappointment this book is.

http://www.tektonics.org/books/ehrqurvw.html

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=3452
http://www.denverseminary.edu/dj/articles2006/0200/0206
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...ans_misqu.html
http://www.ccwonline.org/ehrman.html
http://www.curtisvillechristian.org/Misquoting.html

post edited by Sophie - 2007/06/08 06:21:11
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/07 18:59:15 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

  Hi Nazaroo  Have you read The Beast Within  by Neil Boyd   about how men can abuse women and why.
It is very interesting and certainly related to the phenomena of stoning and abuse of women and children.
  Have you read Extraordinary Evil, A short History of Genocide: A Short Walk from Contempt to Exclusion and Murder by Barbara Colorosa?  These also could be incorporated as quotes in your book about John, adultery and stoning and abuse of the perceived weaker vulnerable person, children and women.  I think you have a fascinating idea here and it should be collated and published as a permanent book.

 
These books sound quite interesting.  I haven't been able to keep up with many of the books and documentaries regarding this important topic.  But I will see if I can locate them and take a good look.
 
Thanks for the titles.
 
Peace
Nazaroo
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/08 02:06:24 (permalink)
  Thank you for your information. I have not studied the John passage as in depth as you have and in reading your site it appears very interesting.  I hope you can collate it in a book.  There are always disagreements about spiritual ideas and I must say I would react the same way if my view of  certain passages was dismissed or torn to shreds, nonetheless plenty of people would agree with you or see at least merit in your ideas and appreciate them.  Reacting to other's ideas that disagree with yours can show your own more clearly to others too.  It can make for a lively read.
 
  This is a super important passage and issue so please do try to publish it as a book.  Boyd does a social, psychological study of violence, and it is fascinating and appropriate to your book I think.  Colorosa does a study of genocide and stoning is often femicide so that is relevant too.
 
  Also I highly recommend The Science of Good and Evil by Michael Sherman.  I quoted his analysis of morality mechanism in community and  found it very insightful.  I also found Samantha Horn's Take The Bully By The Horns a compassionate but effective way to understand the phenomena of bullying and solutions to stop it, and femicide and stoning are extreme forms of bullying.  Another excellent book full of funny quotes which may be useful for your topic too. 
 
    A person may say they are agnostic or an aetheist but sometimes when you read their writing their love of God and Jesus still shines through.  It is maddening when they disagree with something one feels very strongly about.  It can make one want to dismiss the whole book.  Blessings from Connie and thank you for your wonderful website.
 
   
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/12 23:42:24 (permalink)
Dear friends,

This action is recommended by FutureChurch, an American Catholic organisation.
What is happening in your country?

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~

Scripture Readings That Subordinate Women...
Make Sure They Don't Happen in Your Parish


In August 2000 the Irish Catholic Church proposed dropping seven texts from a proposed new Lectionary because they "give an undesirably negative impression regarding women." The Irish Bishops' new Domestic Violence document recommended the following texts for deletion:
  • Ephesians 5:22-24 ...wives should submit to their husbands etc.
  • 1 Timothy 2:11-15 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent etc.
  • 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ...women should remain silent in the churches (and following).
  • 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man (and following).
  • Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
  • Peter 3:1-6 Wives in the same way be submissive to your husbands (and following).
  • Titus 2: 4-5 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands so that no one will malign the word of God.


Responding to the Irish Bishops' decision, a September 1, 2000 Catholic News Service interview with Father James Moroney, director of the U.S. Bishops' Secretariat on the Liturgy, reaffirmed the Bishops' concern about New Testament readings which subordinate women. They also publicized Lectionary alternatives now available to the U.S. church.

The current U.S. Lectionary, which has been in use since Advent 1998, provides the option of using a short form of the readings from Colossians and Ephesians, that "omit verses which were reported to have caused widespread misunderstandings when proclaimed in some parishes," according to Moroney.  If a priest does choose to use the longer form of these readings, Maroney said, he should explain the reading in the context of the church's teaching and the original cultural context of the Scripture.

But which readings were revised? In the US church, only the Colossians and Ephesians readings have short options provided.  1 Peter 3, 1-6 and Titus 2,4-5 were not modified "because there are other options already available,' according to Maroney, who also noted that these are in the second volume of the lectionary awaiting confirmation by the Holy See.

Colossians 3, 12-21 which includes the offending phrase wives be submissive to your husbands, used to be assigned every year on the feast of the Holy Family (usually the Sunday after Christmas.) In the new Lectionary it is assigned only to Year A, and there is the optioin to leave off the offending verses 17-21.  Year B and Year C have completely new readings but if the presider chooses he has the option of using the year A readings.  Thus, the offending verses could theoretically be read every year unless the presider exercises his option of omitting them as in Year A.

Ephesians 5, 21-32 which says that the husband is the head of the wife (and following) is read on the 21st Sunday of Ordinary time in Year B and on Tuesday of the 30th weekof Ordinary time in Year II.  The revised Lectionary allows a shorter form in the Sunday reading where vs. 21-24 are omitted so that the Husbands love your wives...is heard but not Wives be subordinate.

Suggested Action:

Take this flyer to your pastor and parish liturgy committee.  AS them to make sure scripture readings that subordinate women aren't being read from the pulpit in your faith community.

For Celebrating Women Witnesses,  a project by FutureChurch in partnership with Call to Action.

www.futureChurch.org
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/19 13:46:09 (permalink)
  Nay I speak from the heart said Divina
  I have been trying for a long time to understand God
  Now I have made friends with God
  To love God truly you must love change
  And you must love a good joke
  These being the true inclinations of God's own heart.
                             
             Source: Seven Stories
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/19 13:56:43 (permalink)
  Submissive women passages should be dropped from reading from the pulpit! 
 
  I agree with FutureChurch recommendation.
 
   I agree that they just foster abuse of women. 
 
        They teach that women are worthless and deserve to be beaten up.
   It is thought they are not even the original bible passages but stuck in later to foster  anti-women bias and follow   
   Pagan Roman civil laws that also subjucate women.   
 
        Lots of harm is done when things are taught that teach women deserve to be abused or ignored or shut out of real decision making involvement and participation.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/19 14:09:23 (permalink)
                          We have to watch out for web sites and posted videos that teach hatred of other religious faiths or groups.
 
                           Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what the message really is.
 
                            Teaching condemnation and hatred of others is in no way what Jesus teaches, and in no way follows Jesus's actions.
 
                            " Bridesmaids keep your lamps lit, Be on the watch"  keep your hearts and minds open as abuse is being taught still      
                              and that is wrong.
 
                              Jesus is about respect and dignity and mercy and fairness,  never about hate and exclusion and cruelty.
 
                               He invites us to help one another.  To be on guard against deception, unfair, merciless condemning false self-  
 
                               righteousness.                      
 
                               ."Come all who labour and burden and I will lift your burden."
 
                                "There are many rooms in my father's house".               
                
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/19 14:32:33 (permalink)
       Definately  we got to read carefully what is in some web sites. At first glance they look okay.  Then when you really look more closely you see a real pattern of maybe ugly things they are actually promoting.  Teaching hatred of others is not good, not the way of Jesus and leads to scary stuff like fights and wars.
        We can get misled and taken down the wrong path.  What motivates someone to come up with some of these sites too? Is it in reality a destructive thing they are really pushing? Is it coming from a true position of anger and hatred of others or a political thing?
          This website womenpriests.org is promoting something very good. It is trying to help Roman Catholic church to let women be priests too and that is a good and positive thing. God made men and women in God's image and women can help our church too with all their mind and heart and soul. This web site teaches tolerance and respect to other faiths and groups.  That truly follows Christian values.
           This web site is really helpin our church and respects the world wide struggle to help children and women and men live in salfety and harmony throughout the world.                            daniella
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/19 15:53:24 (permalink)
   
        I like your quote from Seven Stories book!
 
 
  God loves change and the world is full of changes.  Change for the better here is to follow the way and teachings of Jesus and let women be ordained too in our church.
 
      God loves humour and happiness too.  Happiness means we aknowledge what Jesus acknowledged:  women are good too,  women are worthy too, women are capable and can also serve God as the men do.
 
       Jesus when on earth was an "equal opportunity exployer" having both men and women do all ministry with him and he travelled with plenty of women disciples too: Joanna, Mary Magdalene, Salome, Susanna and other unnamed ladies too.
 
        It is ridiculous to claim there are only men disciples and apostles. That claim defies truth and Jesus.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/22 19:37:14 (permalink)

Photo Joan Morris/Dorothy Irvin
This archaeological photograph of a mosaic  in the Church of St. Praxedis in Rome  shows, in the blue mantle, the Virgin Mary, foremother of women leaders in the Church. On her left is St.Pudentiana and on her right St. Praxedis, both leaders of house churches in early Christian Rome. Episcopa Theodora,  "Bishop Theodora " is the bishop of the Church of St. Praxedis in  820 AD.

Erasing Women from History
Editorial: National Catholic Reporter

Issue Date:  June 22, 2007

The title of biblical scholar Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza’s 1984 book In Memory of Her gave tribute -- as Jesus himself did -- to the woman who interrupted an all-male dinner in Bethany to anoint the feet of Jesus with costly perfume and then let down her long tresses to dry them (Mark 14:3-9). “Let her be,” Jesus said to the disciples at table who were bemoaning this lavish, insightful expression of love. “Wherever the Gospel is proclaimed in all the world,” he said, “what she has done will be told in memory of her.”

The book’s title was also intended as a joke. The focus of Schüssler Fiorenza’s book was the purging of the role of women from the scriptural record and history of the church. The woman Jesus praised remains unknown to us because her name was never recorded.

It is a weary adage that history is written by the winners, but this explains the deleting, obscuring and distorting of women, minorities, victims, opponents and all other losers from the official record of both the secular and ecclesial establishments. Ask the indigenous peoples of the “New World” who discovered America or how the West was won.

So when a contemporary group of pilgrims visited the archeological sites around Rome last March in search of evidence that women held high office and real liturgical status in the primitive church, they found what all good historians find -- the raw material for plausible interpretation. A second-century fresco depicting seven women at table with cups of wine and seven baskets of bread. A eucharistic banquet with women priests? A ninth-century church mosaic of a female with the word episcopa over her head. A woman bishop? Truth is in the eye of the beholder. If evidence for “herstory” -- female authority in the church -- is there looking back at us from the mosaics, frescoes, burial inscriptions and ancient texts, the truth of it has seldom registered with our male-run church. History’s winners have chosen to ignore it.

If any evidence is still required in the 21st century to justify gender equality or a more egalitarian spirit in the Catholic church, it will not come from official history. But it may come from two other more authoritative sources: the New Testament itself and the inescapable truth that all history is selectively constructed to underpin current authority.

Even popes and cardinals, robed in 15th-century Renaissance court costumes, pontificating in Latin from 17th-century baroque-style thrones and pulpits, cannot ignore Jesus’ explicit inclusion of women in the New Testament, a memory so strong that no scriptural editor dared tamper with it. Women were the first witnesses to the Resurrection -- the Gospel itself -- because they were part of Jesus’ life and ministry up to and including his death. Mary of Magdala, later maligned as a prostitute, was the first preacher sent to the disbelieving brothers. Early preachers, as Paul described, were teams of men and women. His own churches were dependent on a large group of fellow-workers, carefully named and praised, women and men, in whose houses the Eucharist was celebrated. In the next generation, bishops were married. Deaconesses were ordained.
Why did this church, and the Christ it modeled, in which there is “neither male nor female” (Galatians 3:28), get lost? Why is there so little female authority in our church, starving it of domestic sensitivity, common sense, compassion and simple balance?

Ask the winners, if you can find them, for they, too, are lost in a selective pastiche of cultural forms and protocols from which they rule, undisturbed by time.
National Catholic Reporter, June 22, 2007 
Sophie
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/28 03:47:58 (permalink)
 
 


Dear friends,

In the depths of another thread emerged a conversation about  the impact of scripture on the cause for women priests.  Having concern for the navigating ease of others who might like to connect with this theme, I am about to transfer relevant posts from that thread so that the conversation can continue here in this dedicated space.

If you have any questions, please let me know. 

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~
Sophie
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/06/28 03:49:36 (permalink)
the following is the first of several posts transferred from another thread
~s~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Remedial reading --- Can the hierarchy be healers in Jesus' name while they subjugate half of humanity?

 
To my knowledge Peter and Paul were not advocates for emancipation of women. “Wives be submissive..” is not exactly an endorsement for abolishing subjugation of women.

God used our past Church fathers like Peter and Paul and worked through them with miracles to bring people to believe in Jesus. God has also worked miracles through women (e.g. many of our saints and the Blessed Mother).

Our spiritual leaders today, as 2000 years ago, are not perfect. We are all sinners and in need of forgiveness, even the Church hierarchy. We are all a product of the sexist society that has persisted throughout recorded history. Only recently have we begun to correct these transgressions against women yet they still persist in society, in our Church and in other churches and synagogues and mosques and temples. All of us have a moral obligation to try to correct these transgressions wherever they exist. The first step is to change the bigoted and antiquated thinking about women. This is beginning to happen in the Church. Ordination of women to the priesthood will follow.

You may think we are wasting our time; that nothing will change and we should give up on the Church. I do not agree. I believe that the Church can change and will change. It is important to ensure that all religions eradicate sexist practices, not only for their own good but for the good of the world that looks to them for moral leadership.
 
Finally, if we are to engage in civil discourse, kindly refrain from sarcastic and insulting remarks regarding one’s reading skills or anything else for that matter.

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