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Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/12 22:04:43 (permalink)
From our friends at FutureChurch.org

Subject: E-list campaign...Women and the Word

Dear Friends in RAPPORT

Please: Would you please forward this message to your elists and help us raise awareness about women’s invisibility at the 2008 Synod on the Word? Since most dioceses are preparing their responses right now, your prompt attention will make a difference! Thanks very much...

Chris Schenk (and could you let me know when/if you were able to circulate this email..thanks! !!)

P.S. The recent news that the Pope plans to appoint more women to top
Vatican Jobs, citing the disaffection of women as a cause of secularisation
could be helpful for our campaign!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,2130710,00.html

Put Women Back in the Biblical Picture at 2008 Vatican Synod

FutureChurch is working to raise awareness about the invisibility of women’s biblical leadership and preaching at the October 2008 Synod on the Word

Please send an electronic pre prepared postcard* to your bishop (and
automatically cc: the Pope and the Pontifical Biblical Commission)

Visit http://www.futurechurch.org/watw/postcards/ (May take a moment to connect)

Your emailed postcard will help build the Synod agenda. Dioceses around the U.S. must respond to the synod outline (“lineamenta”) by November, 2007 so please get your e-postcard in right away!

The four goals of the Women and the Word: Synod 2008 Campaign:
  • Invite women biblical experts . No women theologians were
    included in the 2005 Synod.
  • Devote more pastoral attention to Jesus' and St. Paul's
    inclusion of women leaders.
  • Expand opportunities for women preachers so both women and men
    can hear the Word through the lens of Christian women.
  • Restore biblical women leaders to lectionary readings in which
    their witness was diminished or deleted. (See Women in the Bible and the Lectionary by Sr. Ruth Fox from May/June issue of LITURGY 90, © 1996)

The time is right. In February, 2006, the Pope provided the biblical
underpinnings for women preachers and leaders and just announced his intent to expand leadership roles for women at the Holy See,

For Synod on the Word Background Information, visit:
http://www.futurechurch.org/watw/index.htm

For a summary of the Pope’s recent statements about women visit:
http://www.futurechurch.org/watw/popequotes.htm

To sign up for regular email updates about the campaign, click here:
http://www.futurechurch.org/enewsletters.htm

Please forward this message to all the concerned Catholics in your address
book!

*Paper postcards also available. To order, call 216-228-0869 ext 5.

Thanks!

Your FutureChurch coworkers in Church Reform!
We Love the Church...We' re Working to Make it Better

Christine Schenk csj
FutureChurch
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17307 Madison Ave
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USA
216-228-0869
216-228-4872 (fax)
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 02:44:51 (permalink)
This is Why Woman Was Created  


After God had created the man, He said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an HELP meet (suitable) for him" (Gen. 2:18). Finding that none of the animal creation fitted this need, God created woman out of a part of man. And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man" (Verse 23).
 
Notice that the very purpose of woman’s creation was to provide a help for the man. But on the first occasion when man had a severe trial and needed help, what happened?
 
Genesis 3:1-16 shows that the woman allowed the serpent, representing Satan, to beguile her into disobeying her Creator, God. And she thereupon caused her husband, whom she was supposed to help, to disobey God also and cut himself off from God’s blessings.
The woman had taken the initiative. She had tried to lead the man - a thing for which she was not intended nor equipped - and as a result the whole human family was cut off from God until Christ came to obey God and make reconciliation.
 
Because she had sinned in doing this thing, God told the woman, "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall RULE over thee" (Gen. 3:16).
 
Plain words, these. And these are God’s words - not human opinion. God had made the man first - in His direct image,  God had made the man physically stronger, and with every necessary quality to be the woman’s leader. Adam knew that the woman was to be his helper - and he her head.
But now that the woman had taken the initiative without consulting her husband, and had sinned and led him to sin in so doing, God made their status doubly CLEAR: "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall RULE over thee."
Adam had not fulfilled his God-given responsibility to lead the woman in the right way, but had let her wrest the initiative from him. And so God told Adam, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake, in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life" (Gen. 3:17). Yes, Adam was punished "Because," God said, "thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife" - and so had been led to disobey God.
 
1 Corinthians 11:2-16: "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man
 
Seems your group here is bent on taking the fruit once more from the perpetual tree of knowledge. Trying to lead mankind into defying God laws...again.
 
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 03:28:04 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

This is Why Woman Was Created  


After God had created the man, He said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an HELP meet (suitable) for him" (Gen. 2:18). Finding that none of the animal creation fitted this need, God created woman out of a part of man. And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man" (Verse 23).
 




 
 
Oh dear, may I assume that you do not believe in Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution?
 
Tell me, did God make male and female animals first and forget to make a mate for Adam or did all the female animals appear with the creation of Eve?
 
Do you believe that dinosaurs once roamed the earth?
 
How do you reconcile the fact that in the first creation story the animals appear before man and in the second creation story they appear after man?
 
Do you also believe that the universe was created in seven days?
 
It sounds as if you believe women are morally and intellectually inferior to men. Is this true?
 
It appears that you are a fundamentalist Christian. Are you also a Catholic? (Please say no)
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 04:18:08 (permalink)
Psalm 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times..Genesis is the word of God...Perhaps you could just leave that part out if you dont like it.
 
Yep just rip Genesis 2:21–22 right out!
 
 
 
Oh dear, may I assume that you do not believe in Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution? #1 evilution is not proven however Natural selection yes! and yes there is a diference : )

Tell me, did God make male and female animals first and forget to make a mate for Adam or did all the female animals appear with the creation of Eve? creation of the animals (Gen. 1:24-25), the creation of Adam (Gen. 1:26 and 2:7), the planting of the garden (Gen. 2:8-14), the giving of the probationary command (Gen. 2:16-17), the leading of the animals to Adam and his naming them (Gen. 2:18-20), and the sleep of Adam and the creation of Eve (Gen. 2:21-23).It is important to note that God’s purpose in parading all the animals before Adam was not merely so that he would give them names. It was also to reinforce the fact that he was different in kind from the rest of creation, so that none of these animals could ever serve as a physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual companion. So God made from Adam's rib a companion who was suitable


Do you believe that dinosaurs once roamed the earth? Yes and that doesnt conclude evolution is a fact.

How do you reconcile the fact that in the first creation story the animals appear before man and in the second creation story they appear after man? Does this help?
  1. Gen. 1:11 has the trees made on day 3 before man;
    Gen. 2:8 has the trees made on day 6 after man.

  2. Gen. 1:20 has birds made out of the water on day 5;
    Gen. 2:19 has birds made out of the ground (after man) on day 6.

  3. Gen. 1:24, 25 has the animals made on day 6 before man;
    Gen. 2:19 has the animals made on day 6 after man

Explanation of supposed contradiction:
  1. Chapter 1 tells the entire story in the order it happened.
  2. Gen. 2:4-6 gives a quick summary of the first five days of creation.
  3. Gen. 2:7-25 is describing only the events that took place on day 6 in the Garden of Eden.

The trees described in Genesis 2:8 are only in the Garden (the rest of the world is already full of trees from day 3). The purpose of this second creation of trees may have been to let Adam see that God did have power to create, that He was not just taking credit for the existing world. Notice that the second creation of trees was still on day 6 and was only those trees that are "pleasant to the sight and good for food."
The birds created out of the ground on day 6 are only one of each "kind" so that Adam can name them and select a wife. The rest of the world is full of birds from day 5.
Genesis 2:19 is describing only the animals created in the Garden, after man. The purpose of this second batch of animals being created was so that Adam could name them (Gen. 2:19) and select a wife (Gen. 2:20). Adam, not finding a suitable one (God knew he wouldn't), God made Eve (Gen. 2:21-22).
There are no contradictions between these two chapters. Chapter 2 only describes in more detail the events in the Garden of Eden on day 6. If ancient man had written the Bible (as some scoffers say), he would never have made it say that the light was made before the sun! Many ancient cultures worshiped the sun as the source of life. God is light. God made the light before He made the sun so we could see that He (not the sun) is the source of life.
 

Do you also believe that the universe was created in seven days? Here is a good article by Rich Deem you can read if you like http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis.html Are you saying God could not create the universe in seven days? Because I believe he could!

It sounds as if you believe women are morally and intellectually inferior to men. Is this true? I believe in what the church teaches and the bible I have not taken away nor added to either!

It appears that you are a fundamentalist Christian. Are you also a Catholic? (Please say no) fun·da·men·tal adjective:Arising from or going to the root or source,
noun A broad and basic rule or truth. Sure Ill take that as a compliment!
 
Catholic yes and I am in good company  Roma locuta, causa finita
 
 (Rome has spoken; the case is closed)
 
 
 

 

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 04:25:02 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

Psalm 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times..Genesis is the word of God...Perhaps you could just leave that part out if you dont like it.

Yep just rip Genesis 2:21–22 right out!



Oh dear, may I assume that you do not believe in Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution? #1 evilution is not proven however Natural selection yes! and yes there is a diference : )

Tell me, did God make male and female animals first and forget to make a mate for Adam or did all the female animals appear with the creation of Eve? creation of the animals (Gen. 1:24-25), the creation of Adam (Gen. 1:26 and 2:7), the planting of the garden (Gen. 2:8-14), the giving of the probationary command (Gen. 2:16-17), the leading of the animals to Adam and his naming them (Gen. 2:18-20), and the sleep of Adam and the creation of Eve (Gen. 2:21-23).It is important to note that God’s purpose in parading all the animals before Adam was not merely so that he would give them names. It was also to reinforce the fact that he was different in kind from the rest of creation, so that none of these animals could ever serve as a physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual companion. So God made from Adam's rib a companion who was suitable


Do you believe that dinosaurs once roamed the earth? Yes and that doesnt conclude evolution is a fact.

How do you reconcile the fact that in the first creation story the animals appear before man and in the second creation story they appear after man? Does this help?
  1. Gen. 1:11 has the trees made on day 3 before man;
    Gen. 2:8 has the trees made on day 6 after man.

  2. Gen. 1:20 has birds made out of the water on day 5;
    Gen. 2:19 has birds made out of the ground (after man) on day 6.

  3. Gen. 1:24, 25 has the animals made on day 6 before man;
    Gen. 2:19 has the animals made on day 6 after man

Explanation of supposed contradiction:
  1. Chapter 1 tells the entire story in the order it happened.
  2. Gen. 2:4-6 gives a quick summary of the first five days of creation.
  3. Gen. 2:7-25 is describing only the events that took place on day 6 in the Garden of Eden.

The trees described in Genesis 2:8 are only in the Garden (the rest of the world is already full of trees from day 3). The purpose of this second creation of trees may have been to let Adam see that God did have power to create, that He was not just taking credit for the existing world. Notice that the second creation of trees was still on day 6 and was only those trees that are "pleasant to the sight and good for food."
The birds created out of the ground on day 6 are only one of each "kind" so that Adam can name them and select a wife. The rest of the world is full of birds from day 5.
Genesis 2:19 is describing only the animals created in the Garden, after man. The purpose of this second batch of animals being created was so that Adam could name them (Gen. 2:19) and select a wife (Gen. 2:20). Adam, not finding a suitable one (God knew he wouldn't), God made Eve (Gen. 2:21-22).
There are no contradictions between these two chapters. Chapter 2 only describes in more detail the events in the Garden of Eden on day 6. If ancient man had written the Bible (as some scoffers say), he would never have made it say that the light was made before the sun! Many ancient cultures worshiped the sun as the source of life. God is light. God made the light before He made the sun so we could see that He (not the sun) is the source of life.
 

Do you also believe that the universe was created in seven days? Here is a good article by Rich Deem you can read if you like http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis.html Are you saying God could not create the universe in seven days? Because I believe he could!

It sounds as if you believe women are morally and intellectually inferior to men. Is this true? I believe in what the church teaches and the bible I have not taken away nor added to either!

It appears that you are a fundamentalist Christian. Are you also a Catholic? (Please say no) fun·da·men·tal adjective:Arising from or going to the root or source,
noun A broad and basic rule or truth. Sure Ill take that as a compliment!
 
Catholic yes and I am in good company  Roma locuta, causa finita

(Rome has spoken; the case is closed)
 
 
 




 
None of this makes any sense.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 04:34:43 (permalink)
Evening came, and morning followed--the fourth day.
20
Then God said, "Let the water teem with an abundance of living creatures, and on the earth let birds fly beneath the dome of the sky." And so it happened:
21
God created the great sea monsters and all kinds of swimming creatures with which the water teems, and all kinds of winged birds. God saw how good it was,
22
and God blessed them, saying, "Be fertile, multiply, and fill the water of the seas; and let the birds multiply on the earth."
23
Evening came, and morning followed--the fifth day.
24
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds." And so it happened:
25
God made all kinds of wild animals, all kinds of cattle, and all kinds of creeping things of the earth. God saw how good it was.
26
Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground."
27
God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.
28
God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth."
29
God also said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
30
and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food." And so it happened.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 05:28:20 (permalink)
  Hello   There are 2,    count them  2,  distinct Creation Stories in Genesis.
 
   God created man in his image,  male and femaleBOTH sexes are God.  Both.
 
    Be fruitful and multiply. Sex is good.  Create humans, sex and life is good.
 
     Men and women are good.
 
      Original Blessing is the Genesis story.  Patriarchal woman hating Story 2 is a vile corruption  that feeds into a hatred and contempt for women to justify abuse of women.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 07:05:47 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest

Psalm 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times..Genesis is the word of God...Perhaps you could just leave that part out if you dont like it.

Yep just rip Genesis 2:21–22 right out!

..............
 
 
 




In the first story human beings (male and female) are made after the animals. In the second story Adam (man) is made first and then the animals followed by Eve (woman). There is a chronological inconsistency in the two stories. It is a contradiction.
 
How convenient. Claim that a day is not 24 hours. Now who is changing scripture to suit themselves? What happened to your literal interpretation?
 
I guess you believe that dinosaurs were in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Adam lived through the ice age. (None of the animals were a suitable wife for Adam? How ridiculous?).
 
By the way evolution is a theory not a hypothesis. We are still evolving and everything in nature supports and validates evolution as the means of our origin. This does not mean that God does not exist, however it does help us to understand the problems with literal interpretation of scripture.
 
As long as there are rational human beings capable of independent thought, the truth will not be suppressed. The case will not be closed until women are ordained to the priesthood.

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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 16:19:48 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest


It sounds as if you believe women are morally and intellectually inferior to men. Is this true? I believe in what the church teaches and the bible I have not taken away nor added to either!



 
 
You did not answer the question. Do you believe that women are morally and intellectually inferior to men? What do you believe that the Church teaches?
 
Answer the question.
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 16:55:16 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest


Are you saying God could not create the universe in seven days? Because I believe he could!

 
 

 
I am not saying the God could not create the universe in six days. I am saying that scientific evidence shows us that this is not what happened.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 23:19:14 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest
Seems your group here is bent on taking the fruit once more from the perpetual tree of knowledge. Trying to lead mankind into defying God laws...again.

 
As you express real concern with the possibility of anyone leading mankind into defying God's laws...
let's review what constitutes God's law as proclaimed by the Christ.  Just in case you missed it, it was:
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
That's not "control one another" "lord it over one another" "devalue one another" "proclaim oneself more 'in persona Christi... more Christlike' than one another"  "exclude one another"  "proclaim oneself spiritually superior to another" "proclaim onself with spiritual authority over another" "condemn one another based on stories of Adam and Eve's incompetence as human beings" "establish dress codes for one another" nor "silence one another"
that was
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
just in case you missed it in a big way, that's God's law.
 
 
 
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/22 23:28:22 (permalink)
funny how some seem to miss that one key point!
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 01:41:50 (permalink)
In the first story human beings (male and female) are made after the animals. In the second story Adam (man) is made first and then the animals followed by Eve (woman). There is a chronological inconsistency in the two stories. It is a contradiction. Not if you understand the second correlates and gives a more detailed account it doesnt

How convenient. Claim that a day is not 24 hours.Now who is changing scripture to suit themselves?Did you bother to read  What happened to your literal interpretation? I assume you believe in God and in evolution? Just not the part of evolution that states a random chance of life happend from primodial soup (inwhich evolution does not require the hand of God to create) How convenient is that?

I guess you believe that dinosaurs were in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Adam lived through the ice age. (None of the animals were a suitable wife for Adam? How ridiculous?).
 
Take a new look at the paleontological
and geological record. there are many examples of totally REVERSED 'strata layers' that no known force could have produced that way -- some are THOUSANDS of square miles (the Lewis overthrust for instance, weighs in at around 800,000 BILLION TONS, but shows no signs of grinding or sliding that a true 'overthrust' would produce). But some of the most embar- rassing discoveries of modern times are entirely 'misplaced fossils,' millions of years in the wrong place, such as human footprints found in Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Illinois, New Mexico, Kentucky, and other states, in rocks supposedly 250,000,000 years old" (Acts, p.15, June 1996).
 
Believe it or not:
 
mysterious dinosaur tracks and human footprints found close together at the Paluxy River Bed:
    "Though the dino tracks (in the Paluxy River Bed in Glen Rose, Texas, for instance) are real, perhaps the human prints were later 'clever carvings' by Indians (who must have gotten around other states a lot). Recent research, however, has shown that they CONTINUE under shale bulldozed away, and paleontologists like Dr. Camp of the University of California and Dr. G. Wescott of Ypsilanti, Michigan, have pronounced them genuine. Scores of other similar finds have come in: human skulls in the Pliocene strata; pollen and anthropods in Pre-Cambrian layers; even pictographs of a dinosaur among other animals on ancient canyon walls, which would knock some 70 million years out of the geologic column" (Acts, p.15, June 1996).


 
Oh ye of little faith!

By the way evolution is a theory not a hypothesis.Actually the burden of proof would be with you for example can you answer just one of two? Science cannot
  • 1-       show one specific prediction of evolution that has proven true – saying that animals change is vacuous.
  • 2-       More to the point, show one specific future prediction of evolution that has even been made. 

Pick a species- any species. When will it change?  We are still evolving We are still evolving? Really? 250,000 years (according to evolutionist)ago modern man arrived on the scene and what have we evolved to in the past 250,000 years? our skelital,muscle structures,brain size are the same.We dont have any extra arms legs we still are bipedal no wings yet.We still cant adapt to our surroundings i.e. we can die of extreme weather conditions.
Do you think we are nothing more than a talking monkeys?
 
The theory of evolution states that overtime, as new species began to evolve, the more dominant species were in greatest control of the Earth’s population.
 
Millions of people are taught that the fossil record furnishes proof of evolution. But, where are there fossils of half-evolved dinosaurs or other creatures?
The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred
 
and everything in nature supports and validates evolution.EVERYTHING? Thats a broad statement
 
as the means of our origin.Our origins are from a mastercraftsman we call him God or YHWH.We are a product of God not some accident of random chance as explained through evolution. This does not mean that God does not exist, however it does help us to understand the problems with literal interpretation of scripture.

As long as there are rational human beings capable of independent thought, the truth will not be suppressed. The case will not be closed until women are ordained to the priesthood.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 02:03:08 (permalink)
   This website is not about evolution.
    This website is devoted to helping Roman Catholic Church correct its error of excluding women from ordination.
    There are other websites that proclaim your creation myth story.
 
     I love learning and this is not the place to discuss evolution science. Besides to you theory of evolution and creation  is a belief and has nothing to do with science or facts.  The dinosaur you look at in the mirror is you.  May your inner "dinosaur" and your inner "coachroach" whose evolution you have never left behind, continue to please you.
 
      Fred Flintstone and you must have fun together going bowling with your pet dinosaur, Dino.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 02:21:40 (permalink)
As you express real concern with the possibility of anyone leading mankind into defying God's laws...
let's review what constitutes God's law as proclaimed by the Christ.  Just in case you missed it, it was:
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
That's not "control one another" "lord it over one another" "devalue one another" "proclaim oneself more 'in persona Christi... more Christlike' than one another"  "exclude one another"  "proclaim oneself spiritually superior to another" "proclaim onself with spiritual authority over another" "condemn one another based on stories of Adam and Eve's incompetence as human beings" "establish dress codes for one another" nor "silence one another"
that was
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
just in case you missed it in a big way, that's God's law.

A big AMEN for Love one another! Your right about that.

The arguement is a big misconception its not about being pollitically correct or thinking one gender is better than another one at all. Its not about hateing women or men or better than women.

Women Cannot be Priest, Bishop, Cardinal, or Pope
 
Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, “On Reserving Priestly Ordination To Men Alone,” affirms the teaching of Christ that the Church has no authority to ordain women to the priesthood. One of the last statements in the Letter reads as follows:



“Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful."

This affirmation falls under Papal Infallibility. For a detailed explanation of the infallibility of this statement, see: The Three Charisms of the Sacred Magisterium.

Women cannot be validly ordained to the priesthood, because Christ did not give His Church the authority to confer priestly ordination on women. Therefore, between now and the Return of Christ, women cannot be priests.

The only time I see the words as these women are inferior to men, the hatred towards women, no equality for women is on this site none of these words are used in the coucils and statements made from the pope think about it!
 If you wish to interpret it as such then whos the one with hatred in the heart? Youve heard this before "Church doctrine cannot be based on popular opinion" Is it so hard to understand that someone could actually believe in womens right to vote,work,own her own house, etc... and yet believe in the teachings of the church and papal infallability that women cant be priests.Why is that concept so hard to understand? On this site Ive been called a woman hater (funny most of my friends are women) They even respect my opinions on women & the priesthood. Hang on to you hats.... they are not offended As if I were some how entitled to my opinions and could still be a good friend and supporter...hmm beyond your comprehension? Asking me silly questions like Do you believe that women are morally and intellectually inferior to men? Being a priest is not about being intellectually superior to any one.. Can we not have an exercise of ego without trying to put words in my mouth or try to make me look like a male shovanist. Just because a person doesnt agree with you doesnt make them a shovanist.  My oldest daughter is in her second year of medical school (Ill be glad when thats over) Proud pappa I had to through that in! Besides my arguements against women in the priesthood are alot of the same argements you should be prepared to answer anyway. Its good practice incase you ever have your day in court. Youll have all the answers!
post edited by Sophie - 2007/08/23 02:35:10
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 05:14:16 (permalink)
The second creation story contradicts the first story. Either man was made after all the other animals or he wasn’t. You can’t have it both ways. From your response it appears you believe God made Adam, the some animals as possible mates for Adam, and finally Eve. I guess my concept of God is not as illogical as yours.
 
The theory of evolution and the existence of God are not mutually exclusive. God put the evolutionary process in motion.
 
As to the rest of your statements you are misinformed about scientific discovery. As I understand it, paleontologists have determined approximate ages of skeletal remains based on studies of remains in rock formations.
 
“Dinosaurs were vertebrate animals that dominated terrestrial ecosystems for over 160 million years, first appearing approximately 230 million years ago. At the end of the Cretaceous Period, approximately 65 million years ago, a catastrophic extinction event ended dinosaurs' dominance on land.
Humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, but they now inhabit every continent, with a total population of over 6.6 billion as of 2007.”  -  Wikipedia
 
Scientists have determined that dinosaurs lived millions of years before man and became extinct before the dawn of man.
 
Evolution is not about prediction it is about mutation and recombination. Genetic mutations and recombinations happen over time. We are evolving and continue to evolve. Our phenotype is the result of our genotype. People are gradually changing in appearance but it is gradual and takes many thousands of years to see subtle differences.
 
With respect to the erroneous beliefs on the moral and intellectually inferiority of women, the exclusion of women from the priesthood has been based upon such erroneous beliefs. These beliefs have their origin in the Adam and Eve story. See the thread on “Church Fathers Against Women Priests” for more detailed explanation see. Church Fathers Against Women Priests  .
If you believe God has placed women in a subordinate position to men, do you believe it is because they are morally and intellectually inferior to men? This is what was taught by past Church Fathers so why can’t you just answer the question? Please be aware that your daughter would never be in medical school today, if women in the secular world did not challenge such antiquated thinking.
 
Finally there is no need to use large bold font. It suggests hostility and shouting.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 05:28:28 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest



“Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful."




 
 
To say that the Church cannot act on its own authority is not a credible argument since the Church should have the authority to act justly on its own. This would mean that Christ could have done justly what it would have been unjust for the Church to do. This is an absurd argument.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 06:49:17 (permalink)
  Christ did NOT confer priestly ordination on men either.  No where in the New Testament does Jesus ordain anyone.  That argument is absurd too.
   Christ sanctioned women to do all the tasks of his ministry and to be fellow humble servants of God.
 
    Today we call these people "priests" and therefore as fellow workers in Christ, women too should also be allowed to be priests like the men as Jesus placed no restrictions or limitations on women.
     Women were prophets, deacons, church leaders, preachers, missionaries, anointers, doing all that men did.
      No reason not to ordain women.
       Yes the reason your daughter can attend medical school is brave people faught for her right as a woman to attend. 100 years ago women could not attend medical schools, or vote or become lawyers or any number of jobs we now take for granted.
       The same injustice and exclusions placed on women used unjustly to restrict women you  now throw at us to exclude women from ordination.   Pathetic.  Ordain women and stop this waste of talent and this defiance of the true tradition and actions and teachings of Jesus who gave equality and respect to women.
 
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 06:53:27 (permalink)
   I notice you do not anwer any of the points made to show how women should be ordained as referring to New Testament and Jesus. You just go off on anti-evolution distraction topic, totally off topic and irrelevant.
   Because your anti-woman arguments are hollow and shallow and indefencible.  The Pope is in error excluding women from priesthood.  You have no reasons from scripture or Jesus's traditions and actions and teachings to exclude women from ordination.
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RE: Women Priests as Viewed from Scripture 2007/08/23 06:55:28 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Guest
"I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful."

The Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, however the Church apparently had the authority to confer priestly ordination on pedophiles and allow them to retain their priestly authority in spite of their known pedophilia.
I think that sums up the issue pretty well as far as the community is concerned.  It's called criminal negligence and criminal abuse of authority.
The Church "fathers" aren't accountable only to themselves and to God; they are also accountable to every single mother in the community.  The argument that the possession of male genitalia is a primary requirement for those claiming spiritual authority in the community is an embarassingly poor argument in light of the above.  The "Church has no authority whatsoever" argument is equally pitiful in light of the above.
 
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