Women Can Be Priests
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Mary, the first Christian

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2006/08/01 14:23:39 (permalink)

Mary, the first Christian

 
  The Blessed Virgin Mary was the first Christian, obediant to God, when He asked Her to be His mother.   He authorized her to perform the miraculous, to give birth to God.   That is sufficient authorization to become a priest.  A woman gave us the child Jesus.  A woman can give us the man Jesus in the bread and wine of the Holy Eucharist.

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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/08/07 19:09:58 (permalink)
    The Blessed Virgin Mary was the first Christian and the first Christian priest, bringing Jesus Christ to the world at His birth with the blessing of God the Father.  She was a woman.  God might have chosen for Jesus to appear in His form without Mary's intervention.  But Jesus was born of a woman.  The body of Christ was in Her hands.  That is priesthhood.  If God Himself put Jesus Christ in the hands of a woman, I cannot say that a woman may not put Him in her hands today.   Praise be to God that there are people who are called by Him to continue the Holy priesthood; whether they are men or women, God will use them to His glory.  Through the mystery of the Holy Eucharist, the bread and the wine are sanctified by a priest.  Men and women called by God to this priestly ordination may answer Him; it is their decision in response to Him.  As for me, I will not be an obstacle between the creator of the universe and those men and women whom he calls to be His priests.
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/08/07 22:21:39 (permalink)
    To be blunt with all charity...you are incredibly stupid!
     
    Mary was not a priest in the same sense that the Church has ordained priests. This priesthood is one that is connected to Christ's Sacrifice on Calvary, and the re-presentation of that Sacrifice at each Mass. It is not about "holding" Jesus. It is about being an alter Christus.
     
    Moron!
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/08/07 23:29:22 (permalink)
    Mary was a receptor of the Holy Spirit, not a bestower.  Your arguement does not hold water.  Mary is akin to our reception of the Holy Spirit when we RECIEVE the Eucharist.  Christ is formed in us. 
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/08/08 15:21:41 (permalink)
    Could we see Mary as both God-bearer as well as God bestower?  This is not to argue for Mariolatry (as opposed to Mariology), but to consider the role of  the priest in the Holy Eucharist, my earlier question.  Thank you for your thoughts on this.  My curiosity is geniune, and, I hope, not too moronic.

    post edited by Admin - 2006/11/23 12:59:56
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/09/08 09:10:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Guest

    To be blunt with all charity...you are incredibly stupid!

    Mary was not a priest in the same sense that the Church has ordained priests. This priesthood is one that is connected to Christ's Sacrifice on Calvary, and the re-presentation of that Sacrifice at each Mass. It is not about "holding" Jesus. It is about being an alter Christus.

    Moron!

     
    Yes, it's far more about theatre than it is about spirituality, isn't it?  If it were about spirituality we wouldn't be needing anyone to dress up for us and play the role of Christ, because we'd actually see Christ himself standing there in our midst. We would be far too humbled by His presence ever to think of others as morons. We would realize that we all had been morons for not having noticed Him standing there all along. 
    To be blunt with all charity..... haven't you ever seen Him pass by?  He wasn't the priest.
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/21 08:02:15 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Guest

    The Blessed Virgin Mary was the first Christian and the first Christian priest, bringing Jesus Christ to the world at His birth with the blessing of God the Father.  She was a woman.  God might have chosen for Jesus to appear in His form without Mary's intervention.  But Jesus was born of a woman.  The body of Christ was in Her hands.  That is priesthhood.  If God Himself put Jesus Christ in the hands of a woman, I cannot say that a woman may not put Him in her hands today.   Praise be to God that there are people who are called by Him to continue the Holy priesthood; whether they are men or women, God will use them to His glory.  Through the mystery of the Holy Eucharist, the bread and the wine are sanctified by a priest.  Men and women called by God to this priestly ordination may answer Him; it is their decision in response to Him.  As for me, I will not be an obstacle between the creator of the universe and those men and women whom he calls to be His priests.

     
    Quite remarkable isn't it....Mary, a woman, carried the Body of Christ in her womb, held Him as a child, and held Him in her arms when He was taken down from the cross.  Who knew Jesus better than she?
    And yet, and yet....were she a woman in today's Church, she would not be permitted to raise a host at the altar to share with us and say, "Behold, the Body of Christ."
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/21 09:14:06 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Guest

    ORIGINAL: Guest

    The Blessed Virgin Mary was the first Christian and the first Christian priest, bringing Jesus Christ to the world at His birth with the blessing of God the Father.  She was a woman.  God might have chosen for Jesus to appear in His form without Mary's intervention.  But Jesus was born of a woman.  The body of Christ was in Her hands.  That is priesthhood.  If God Himself put Jesus Christ in the hands of a woman, I cannot say that a woman may not put Him in her hands today.   Praise be to God that there are people who are called by Him to continue the Holy priesthood; whether they are men or women, God will use them to His glory.  Through the mystery of the Holy Eucharist, the bread and the wine are sanctified by a priest.  Men and women called by God to this priestly ordination may answer Him; it is their decision in response to Him.  As for me, I will not be an obstacle between the creator of the universe and those men and women whom he calls to be His priests.


    Quite remarkable isn't it....Mary, a woman, carried the Body of Christ in her womb, held Him as a child, and held Him in her arms when He was taken down from the cross.  Who knew Jesus better than she?
    And yet, and yet....were she a woman in today's Church, she would not be permitted to raise a host at the altar to share with us and say, "Behold, the Body of Christ."

     
    Most excellently stated!
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/21 11:31:09 (permalink)
    yes...she literally, literally, literally spilled her own blood so that He could be born.
     
    a tidy ceremony at the altar...can only be done by a man......  some still arguing that women and girls should not even be able to stand closely by to assist as altar servers....
     
     
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/21 20:16:53 (permalink)
    and the women who stood by the cross....yet some argue should stand at the altar...

    maybe there is something in the genetic memory of some men in the Church that drives them to be at the altar...a genetic memory of having run away from the Cross....and therefore needing to convince themselves that they would not do this again

    a genetic memory such as this is not a bad thing....unless it pushes others away....
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/21 20:18:12 (permalink)
    correction -- above should read '' they stood at the cross and some still yet argue that women should NOT stand at the altar
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/21 21:31:03 (permalink)
    Oh, we could tell that that was what you meant to type, after all.
    It would have to be the "soul memory," the memory and consciousness of the soul, created by God, and known before the entry into the mother's womb that would remember such a soul event as running away. The "genetic memory" is only the earth-plane physicality blueprint for the soul, not its consciousness.
     
    I often see a somewhat darker side to those who insist that they have some sort of supposedly "God-given authority" to stand between other souls and God as they diminish all others around them of their own individual light. 
    There is a force in the universe that insists on standing between souls and God.  It likes that position because it feeds on all that energy, all that light, but it is NOT of God.  Some people think such a thing would never dare come near the Church, but that isn't so.  The Church is highly attractive to it, and it will come every time and try to stand exactly between the souls of others and God,
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 16:40:20 (permalink)
    If Jesus wanted women to be priests, He would have made the Blessed Mother one.  On the Cross, He did not say "Behold, your priest."  No.  Christ said, "Behold, your MOTHER."  Because the Church is Christ's bridegroom, women cannot be priests. It's an odd form of lesbianism for women to be priests! 
     
    You're all heretics!  It says in the code of cannon law, "A baptized MALE alone recieves ordination validly" (Can. 1024).  there are three key words: male, alone, and validly.  If a woman were to be ordained, it'd be a lie.  It wouldn't be valid.  The masses would  be invalid!  Just be content with the fact that we are not called to be priests.
     
    Our Blessed Mother was not a priest.  If Christ didn't call her, the most fit woman, born without sin, to be a priest, then we women today shoudl be content with our own vocations.  Be content with your femininity and leave the Church alone.
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 17:15:41 (permalink)
    PS: Pope John Paul II said in 1994, "Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4).
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 17:42:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Guest

    PS: Pope John Paul II said in 1994, "Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4).


     
    You have raised a great point which is being given some careful thought just like other people such as you.  There is a lively discussion going on about this very subject in the thread "Beat This."
     
    I think you will find it quite interesting.
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 18:14:15 (permalink)
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    If Jesus wanted women to be priests, He would have made the Blessed Mother one.  On the Cross, He did not say "Behold, your priest."  No.  Christ said, "Behold, your MOTHER."  Because the Church is Christ's bridegroom, women cannot be priests. It's an odd form of lesbianism for women to be priests! 

    You're all heretics!  It says in the code of cannon law, "A baptized MALE alone recieves ordination validly" (Can. 1024).  there are three key words: male, alone, and validly.  If a woman were to be ordained, it'd be a lie.  It wouldn't be valid.  The masses would  be invalid!  Just be content with the fact that we are not called to be priests.

    Our Blessed Mother was not a priest.  If Christ didn't call her, the most fit woman, born without sin, to be a priest, then we women today shoudl be content with our own vocations.  Be content with your femininity and leave the Church alone.

     
     
    1.  I  don't quite follow some of the points you are making.  Perhaps I am missing something that will help me to better under1stand.
     
    On your first point, "if Jesus wanted women to be priests, He would have made the Blessed Mother one," I am not clear where you are going or want to go with this. 
     
    Our Church has never depended on Scripture to make its case for the priesthood.  Why?  The fact is, Jesus said nothing about the priesthood. (As I write this, I am wondering if you might be an older Catholic who grew up during the time that we, as Catholics, were not encouraged to read the Bible. Personal bible study among the Catholic laity was not as widespread  as it is today. So I understand, if in making your statement you are relying strictly on what you have heard, there is a bit more I encourage you to consider.)
     
    I think someone may have written something about this somewhere else before.  In the New Testament, the term priest is used in only three ways:
     
    • when speaking about the Jewish temple priests
    • it is applied to Jesus as High priest
    • and, it is applied to the community of the faithful-- which includes all of us!

    In other words, there were no priests in the early Christian Church.  Different leadership roles developed -- under the influence of surrounding culture -- as the Christian community grew and progressed.
     
    Fact is:  Jesus said zero about the priesthood.  So to say that if He wanted women priests, He would have said to Mary from the cross, "Behold, your priest," --when he never talked about priests anywhere else --makes no sense at all.
     
     
    2.  You are right in your understanding that our theology makes reference to the Church's being the Bride and the priest being the Bridegroom.  This is taken from a metaphor in the Paul's Letter to the Ephesians.  And you are on the right track.  If a strictly literal interpretation is applied to the metaphor, it breaks down to a same sex act...which currently is not a lesbian one since as you point out, women can't be priests.  However, what may cause you some concern is that currently, if we apply a literal interpretation to the bride/bridegroom imagery, we are ending up with a same sex act between men...when there are no women in the Church.  Sounds surprising, doesn't it. 
     
    There is a more thorough discussion about this in the thread that is entitled "Bride and Bridegroom in Ephesians" in the Question and Answer section.  I am certain you will find it interesting.  Why don't you read through that thread and then tell me what you think.  I am curious to hear.
     
    3. I am not a heretic for speaking out about this.  Our Code of Canon Law -- Canon 212.3 to be specific -- says that we, the laity have a duty to speak up to our pastors.  It says:
     
    "...the Christian faithful have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion in matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard for the integrity of faith and morals and reverence towards ther pastors and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons." 
     
    Our Church leaders have a duty to take the sensus fidelium -- the sense of the faithful -- into consideration.
     
    I think some of us just aren't used to hearing women speak up.
     
    But speak up they have!
     
    The very first example of this is the Blessed Virgin Mary...Check out Luke 1: 46 - 55...and hear in it what Mary is saying that God is doing...
     
    If you would like some examples of women who spoke up to the Church in challenging ways throughout the centuries, a couple of obvious examples that come to mind are Theresa of Avila and Catherine of Siena...both now held in high regard.   They are both now considered to be Doctors of the Church...which is interesting since during the time they lived, there were many people in the Church who tried to 'shush' them for the things they were talking about.
     
    Anyhow...I will be interested to hear from you once you have read more about the Bride/Bridegroom imagery in Ephesians.
     
    In Christ's peace may we remain in friendship.
     
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 19:00:54 (permalink)
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    It says in the code of cannon law, "A baptized MALE alone recieves ordination validly" (Can. 1024).  there are three key words: male, alone, and validly.  

     
    Forgot to add:  Canon Law has changed throught the centuries and will continue to change.  The change is a sign that we are a living Church.
     
    How has it changed?  well, here is a simple example.
     
    At one time, by virtue of Canon Law, women could not be lectors, ministers of communion or altar servers.
     
    Because Canon Law has changed, women can now participate in these expanding kinds of ways.
     
    Won't be long!!
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 20:58:47 (permalink)
    I am not an older Catholic.  I am seventeen years old.  I just happen to be very Orthodox in our religion!  I actually stumbled across this (sickening) website while looking for information on the Truth that women are not called to be priests.  I am writing a thesis paper on it for my English class.  Infront of me, I have John Paul II's "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis," an Apostolic letter to the Bishops of the Catholic CHurch on reserving priestly ordination to men alone.  He begins, "Priestly ordination, which hands on the office entrusted by Christ to his Apostles teaching, sanctifying and governing the faithful, has in the Catholic C hurch from the beginning always been reserved to men alone.  This tradition has a lso been faithfully maintained by the Oriental Churches."  -- I would highly urge you to read his whole address:  http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html   also in this letter, JP2 states, "I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgement is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."
     
    In the Catechism of the Catholic Church -- a recent publication considering how old our Church is -- clearly states:  "Only a baptized man (vir) recieves sacred ordination.  The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.  The college of bishops, with whom th epriests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return.  The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord Himself.  For this reason the ordination of women is not possible"  (CCC 1577).
     
    "what about Mary of Magdala, or the Blessed Mother?" you may ask.  Here is a quote which may answer this for you: "For it is not to teach that you women...are appointed...For he, God the Lord, Jesus Christ our Teacher, sent us, the twelve [apostles], out to teach the [chosen] people and the pagans.  But there were female disciples among us: Mary of Magdala, Mary the daughter of Jacob, and the other Mary; he did not, however, send them out with us to teach the people.  For, if it had been necessary that women should teach, then our Teacher would have directed them to instruct along with us" (Diadascalia 3:6:1-2 [A.D. 225]).  (Found at the website http://www.catholic.com/library/Women_and_the_Priesthood.asp )
     
    One more document which you might care to read is Mulieris Dignitatem.   JP2 greatly details the dignity and vocation of women.  It can be found here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html
     
    I respect graetly your right to believe what you believe; however, I'd highly urge you to read these and further educate yourself about why the Church does not have the authority to ordain women and to pray on this topic.  I will be praying for you in your conversion.  Christ's peace be with you.
     
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/26 22:59:20 (permalink)
    Hello!
     
    I am sorry if you took offence to my suggestion that you were older.  17! wow!  you are certainly already well read!  That's great.
     
    I would like to give some thought to the second half of your post before replying.  But in the meantime, I urge you to take a look at the the thread called "Beat This" in the Question and Answer section.  It includes a discussion about how infallible statements are made which given what you have shared so far, I think you will find interesting.
     
    Also, when you say 'this tradition has also been faithfully maintained by the Oriental Churches" I am not sure what you mean by that.  Do you mean Catholic rites from the Eastern side of our Church?  Or do you mean the Eastern Orthodox?
     
    This website -- in the academic section -- also includes much, much more thorough information than that...along with some very rigorous intellectual research showing how our Catholic community has grown in its understanding of various aspects of our faith.
     
    In the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ!
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    RE: Mary, the first Christian 2006/11/27 02:42:30 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Guest

    In the Catechism of the Catholic Church -- a recent publication considering how old our Church is -- clearly states:  "Only a baptized man (vir) recieves sacred ordination.  The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.  The college of bishops, with whom th epriests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return.  The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord Himself.  For this reason the ordination of women is not possible"  (CCC 1577).


     
    If they truly believed in Christ they wouldn't worry about keeping 12 men in a room until Christ's return.  They would know that Christ took his body with him and that He never left and still walks this earth.  They would also have listened to and heeded the parable about the good steward, who doesn't bury his talent in the ground, but who puts it to work in the world to create interest for the Master.  "Oh look Master, we've still got the 12 right here for you,just as you left them!"
    12?  Only 12?  Where are my 12  HUNDRED?  My 12 THOUSAND?!  My 12 BILLION?!
    "Oh gee Master, we thought You wanted the talent buried in the ground...." 
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