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Hot!The Women Apostles, The Women Disciples

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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/19 17:51:32 (permalink)
  From   Women In Christianity   by  Hans  Kung       Women Apostles and Women Prophets
 
        "We have already seen that the activity of women prophets is also attested: there are no objections to them.
Paul knows such prophetesses. Certainly he wants to make women uttering prophesies wear viels in worship; but at the same time he confirms their right to free speech in the community assembly.
 
          So there can be no doubt that the community as Paul sees it, and which according to the letter to the Ephesians is built upon the foundation of women apostles and women prophets."
 
           As is so succintly pointed out here, our church is built upon the foundation of women apostles and women prophets .    The disappeared and missing are the males like Peter.  Women apostles DO have the keys to the kingdom to establish and develop our church!  The keys to the church are ably given and ably used by the many women apostles in communion with male apostles like Paul and Timothy.
          No theological reason or church history or church Tradition based in actual reality of the early church to belittle or exclude women from priesthood.
 
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/19 23:24:52 (permalink)
   The woman apostle  Thecla of Iconium 
 
      Thecla of Iconium  preached and baptized.    Right from the beginning there were not only women prophets , there were women preachers and baptizers, evangelists and missionaries, in short doing all the mini
sterial duties that the male apostles did, including being leaders of the church. 
 
     
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 00:30:53 (permalink)
       Lydia   Woman Apostle,    When Women Were Priests   by  K.J. Torjesen--Theologian
 
         "The story of Paul and Lydia recounted  by Luke in Acts took place in Philippi.  In Luke's story, Paul engaged women in questions of the interpretation of Scripture and spoke to them of the Messiah. Acts 16: 11-15. Act 16:40.
          The first woman to respond was  Lydia a householder and a merchant of purple cloth.  She was not Jewish, but a "God fearer" someone who worshiped with the community. As a businesswoman who traveled in connection with her enterprises, Lydia had a wide network of associates.  She was financially independent and the ruler of her household. When she converted to Christianity, her household was baptized together with her- another clear indication of her authority.  Lydia's influence extended as well over a network of clients and friends and relatives and domestic slaves and workers involved in the production of purple cloth.  Her prosperity put her in a position to invite Paul to accept hospitality in her home, where he lodged for some time. Ministery of teaching and preaching was carried out as newly converted Christians gathered there to hear and discuss the new doctrines."
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 00:42:24 (permalink)
  Lydia, Woman Apostle, Administerial and Religious Leader of Church of Philippi,  NT Philipians 4: 1 to 3
 
      The church at Philippi was not only founded by Lydia but its leadership continued in the hands of women. In Paul's letter to the Philippians church he addressed three women leaders  Eudoia  and  Syntyche who were with Lydia providing leadership in the church. For the third woman he used the affectionate term syzuge, which means "mate" or "partner".  He encouraged her to support Eudoai  and Syntyche, his co-workers, women  who "laboured with me in the gospel."        from  K.J. Torjesen 's  When  Women Were  Priests.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 00:58:29 (permalink)
     Leadership of Women in Christian Community
 
         Inscriptional evidence shows that Christian women also held the office of elder in the community.
A Christian inscription dating from the second or third century Egypt, reads "Artemidoras, daughter of Mikkalos, fell asleep in the Lord, her mother Paniskianes, being an elder--presbytra-feminine form.
 
          The Bishop Diogenes set up a memorial for Ammion the woman elder-presbytera-feminine form.  He set up a memorial too in the fourth of fifth century , the epitaph  is in Sicily which refers to Kale the woman elder, presbytera, also feminine.
   from J.K. Torjesen's  When Women Were Priests
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 15:50:36 (permalink)
  Woman Apostle Prisca  who had recently converted to Christianity, followed the network of connections across the Mediterranean to Corinth and established their households there as exiles from the imperial city  of Rome. By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Romans (ca 67 C.E. ) thr Jews had returned to Rome and the Jewish Christian community flourished once again.
 
     When Prisca and Aquila returned to Rome they established a house church as prosperous householders gathered the congregations in their homes and villas. Romans 16:5.  Many of these house churches survived into the second and third century bearing the name of the householders who convened Christian in their home. ---- Theologian K.J. Torjesen
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 15:55:05 (permalink)
  Phoebe  is  diakonos  minister of the congregation at Cenchrae.
 
   She is also Paul's  prostatis    patron, who  is praised by Paul, who urges the Roman Christians to help her in any way as he is deeply grateful to her.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 16:03:59 (permalink)
   Joanna, wife of Chuza (steward in Herod's household). Susanna 
   Joanna travels with Jesus and the women as he ministers to the people.  T. J. Torjesen insightfully informs us " certainly her connections to the ruling Herodian family would have eased the way in any conflicts  with minor local officials. She was amember of a group of women-  Mary of Magdala  and  Susanna  are also mentioned-whose patronage protected and supported the Jesus movement.
     Women so well positioned socially and economically as these often established patron relationships."
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 16:07:59 (permalink)
   Paul addresses as  fellow  workers in the gospel   Apostles  who  are women:  Women Apostles
Prisca  
 Junia  
 Mary 
 Tryphaena  
 Tryphosa 
 Persis   
Julia
Olympas   Of   28 notable Christians    !0 are women  that Paul calls by name and praises.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/20 16:26:01 (permalink)
  K.J. Torjesen  shows us " In John's Gospel, Mary Magdalene not Peter is presented as the model for discipleship.
At a time when Peter and the other male disciples had fled, Mary Magdalene stood loyally at the foot of the cross. She was not only the first witness to the resurrection but was diretly commissined to carry the message that Jesus had risen from the dead.
 
 
      The original version     of the Gospel of John     ends with the resurrection appearance to Mary Magdalene  and  her  witness  to  the twelve  in  chapter 20.     A later copyist  added  another ending  chapter 21  making Peter  more prominent.  New Testament scholars have long puzzled over the reasons for the 2 endings. A recent proposal suggests 21 was added to bring the Johannine community within the pale of the Petrine orthodoxy by claiming  Peter's leadership"-----------  establishing   patriarchy  and altering   the reality of Mary Magdalene's true apostleship importance.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/21 21:36:47 (permalink)
                 "Twelve" Male Disciples  Just A Device to Convince Legitimacy  to Early Jewish-Christians?
 
   Bishop John Shelby Spong  lets us know "The gospel writers (Matthew, Luke, John, Mark) do not agree on who the twelve were, making it quite possible that there never was a particular group of twelve disciples at all, so that when the concept of "twelve" did emerge, the gospel writers had to scramble to give names to them."
 
    "Variation of list to list names reflects the competing groups identities within early Christianity. Elaine Pagels shows us the tension between those who wrote Gospel of Thomas and those who produced the Fourth Gospel." J.S. Spong
 
     Spong informs us "The third conclusion that needs to be registered is that Jesus also had female disciples who were always with him and who are not counted on any list.  Yet Mark tells us that these women, with Mary Magdalene almost always mentioned first, followed him in Galilee and ministered to him (Mark 15: 40-41).  Matthew refers to these women and repeats the idea that they "had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him" Matthew 27:55. Luke also mentions these women who "had followed him from Galilee". (Luke 23:49).
    Perhaps the whole idea that Jesus had twelve male disciples is a claim initiated by Paul and imposed on the Jesus story in service of another, peculiarly Jewish agenda. "
     An agenda to appease patriarchal prejudice? 
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/21 21:45:21 (permalink)
          True Catholics respect diversity and the equality of women -- ordain women too.
 
        It is false to want to build an empire of a church.   Jesus  is not about exclusion of women from priesthood, or empire building or domination.
 
          Jesus truth is about building a community of love.  Ordain the ladies too.       Patrick
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/21 21:55:49 (permalink)
   Bishop John Shelby Spong shows us that the "twelve" is perhaps to signify the Jewish primacy of the 12 tribes of Israel.  However  Christianity spread beyond Israel to Gentiles.  There were far more than 12 disciples and the identities of the individual disciples names vary text to text.  Spong makes a great point here  that "There probably were not twelve disciples."   from the  book,   Jesus, Recovering the Divine at the Heart of The Human,  2007, Harper Collins Publisher, 308 pages
      Anti-women ordination prejudices based on this are not tenable and do our church great harm by excluding women from ordination without justification.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/22 04:54:20 (permalink)
Dear friends,

Author, Marci Alborghetti was recently a guest of The Forum at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco.  The Forum presents 'thought provoking and engaging conversations with some of today's top authorities from the world of politics, activism, spirituality, the arts, the humanites and more.'  Author of books that include:  The Jesus Women, Freedom from Fear: Overcoming Anxiety Through Faith, Miracle of the Myrrh, Prayer Power, Twelve Strong Women of God: Biblical Models for Today, Alborghetti's conversation about women of the Bible was recorded and is available through the Grace Cathedral website.  A copy of it is available here.

I hope you will enjoy!

with love and blessings,
~Sophie~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marci Alborghetti – Women of the Good Book
 
 
Recorded Live:
Sunday, May 20, 2007, 1:00 pm PST

G U E S T :
  • Marci Alborghetti, ,
    author, The Jesus Women

Moderated by : The Very Rev. Alan Jones,
Dean of Grace Cathedral

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About the Program:

Twenty-four times in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus met, discussed, or mentioned a woman in a parable. Every time, they are instructive and positive. He let women know they were intelligent and intrinsically worthy of God's love and concern. In fact, in all four Gospels, not once did Jesus belittle or insult a woman, a rarity at the time.

In the final Forum of the season, Marci Alborghetti will talk about how Jesus' interaction with women influenced his message, as well as how the practices of Christ 2000 years ago influence our society today, and what we can continue to learn from the messages of Scripture.


Related Links:
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/23 14:00:42 (permalink)
   Women Apostles, Leaders, Preachers, Prophets, Anointers in Early Christian Church of Jesus
 
      "By what right do the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches still refuse women an equal share in their activities, to the point of excluding women from the minstry of the church?  Shouldn't traditional theological structures of legitimation, for example the argument that a woman cannot be a 'symbol of Christ'  be questioned in the light of the original ethic of Jesus and the Early Christian community?
          Given the leading functions of women in the Earliest church, as evidenced say, by Phoebe and Prisca, and in view of the completely different osition of women today in business, scholarship, culture, state and society, may be the admission of women to the priesthood be postponed any longer?
            Weren't Jesus and the early church ahead of their time in the evaluation of women, so that churches which continue to prohibit ordination of women lag far behind the gospel and the practice of the early church?
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/23 14:04:05 (permalink)
   The above quote is from Women In Christianity,    Hans Kung.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/24 00:57:22 (permalink)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Today, May 24 is the feast day of Saint Joanna who was the wife of Chuza, steward of King Herod Antipas, tetrarch of Galilee. She was one of the women who helped provide for Jesus and the Apostles and was one of the three women who discovered the empty tomb of Jesus on the first Easter morning. 
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/24 01:10:44 (permalink)
more about Joanna

Mary Magdalene's friendships deserve more attention
by Richard N. Ostling
The Associated Press
There’s an interest with gospels from the Gnostic movement that early Christians barred from the Bible as inauthentic and heretical.Touted by some feminists, it also plays into Dan Brown’s promotion of Gnosticism in his popular novel, “The Da Vinci Code.” Did the Gnostics provide reliable information about Jesus? Birger Pearson, a University of California-Santa Barbara, expert, notes in Bible Review Magazine that Gnostic writings involved were fourth-century translations from third- or second century writings. The New Testament Gospels were first century texts. Brown’s celebrated claim that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and sired a royal bloodline is debunked by Pearson, who says “nothing at all” in biblical or Gnostic materials provides evidence. The “Mrs. Jesus” theory depends on the assertion that Jewish men were required to marry. But we’ve known that’s untrue since the first century, when Josephus wrote about celibate Essene holy men. Speaking of women, in the same issue of Bible Review, Ben Witherington III of Asbury Theological Seminary in Lexington, Ky., writes that with all the Mary Magdalene chatter we shouldn’t ignore that her real-life friend Joanna was equally — or perhaps more — important. And who is Joanna, you say?
 
Joanna and Mary, both close companions of Jesus, attended his crucifixion and burial after the male disciples fled (Luke 23:49-56). They witnessed the empty tomb on Easter morning and went to tell the men, who initially dismissed the good news as an “idle tale” (Luke 24:1-11). The first scriptural mention of Joanna says that Jesus “went on through cities and villages, preaching and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. And the 12 were with him, and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their means” (Luke 8:1-3). Chuza was the household administrator for Herod Antipas, the tyrant infamous for executing Jesus’ cousin and forerunner, John the Baptist.
 
Joanna’s travels were extraordinary because “women in early Jewish culture were not supposed to fraternize with men they were not related to,” Witherington noted. Since Joanna’s husband was well-placed, she presumably had the freedom to travel and the financial means to support Jesus’ entourage. But this would have “put her husband’s career at risk,” he surmised. That shows what a powerful attraction Jesus had for women followers, Witherington says. Jesus not only dismissed the taboo against men talking with women who weren’t their relatives but apparently didn’t treat women as ritually unclean during their monthly cycle (see Mark 7:15). Witherington offers an added theory also proposed in Gospel Women Eerdmans, 2002) by Richard Bauckham of Scotland’s University of St. Andrews.
 
An important statement about the role of women in the earliest church is Romans 16:1-16. There, Paul greets important church workers. One of them is Junia (or Junias), wife of Andronicus, whose Latin name is the equivalent of the Hebrew Joanna. Could she be the same Joanna of the Gospel account? Witherington thinks she is. Paul says that Junia and Andronicus were notable “apostles,” making Junia the first woman given that exalted title, which clearly implies that she had seen the risen Jesus and had been commissioned directly by him.
 
Paul also says Junia and Andronicus “were in Christ before me.” Since Paul became a Christian two or three years after Jesus’ crucifixion, the couple would have been among the very earliest Christians when believers were virtually all Jews located in the Holy Land.
 
Witherington speculated that Chuza divorced Joanna, who then married the Christian Andronicus. “Herod Antipas would hardly have retained Chuza as estate agent if Chuza retained Joanna as a wife,” he said, and maybe the divorce made her free to follow Jesus to Jerusalem.
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/24 01:19:30 (permalink)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
JOANNA:  Personal name meaning, "Yahweh's gift."  
  
In Luke 8:3, one of the women whom Jesus had healed and who ministered to Him out of their own private means. She was the wife of Herod's steward Chuza. Luke's Gospel, which gives particular prominence to women, also mentions her in 24:10. She was one of the women who came to Jesus' tomb on the Sunday following the crucifixion and reported to the eleven the message that He had risen. 
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RE: The Women Apostles, the Women Disciples 2007/05/24 02:22:55 (permalink)
  Great information about Joanna/Junia!  Fascinating!  Very logical too how Ben Witherington analyzed this possible connection between Apostle Junia and Joanna.  My guess is maybe she is the sister or cousin of Mary Magdalene and maybe they are related somehow.  I am reading Bart D. Ehrman's Misquoted Bible  and his Peter Paul and Mary Magdalene  books about scriptural changes over the centuries (mistranslations, copying errors or delberate changes according to theology of transcriber, copyist).  He shows how Peter and other disciples react to Jesus's considering Mary Magdalene  the beloved disciple,  she being the disciple entrusted with special revelations from Jesus.  Very interesting! Connie
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